Developing Leaders, with mBIT and NLP Trainer Mark Klaassen. #8


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Stworzone przez Bill Gasiamis, odkryte przez Player FM i naszą społeczność - prawa autorskie są własnością wydawcy, a nie Player FM, a dzwięk jest przesyłany bezpośrednio z ich serwerów. Naciśnij przycisk Subskrybuj, aby śledzić aktualizacje Player FM, lub wklej adres URL kanału do innych aplikacji podcastowych.

Mark is a Certified NLP Master Trainer (INLPTA), Certified mBIT Coach Trainer, Group Facilitator and Business Consultant to some of New Zealand’s largest companies, including, Air New Zealand, ASB Bank, Fletchers,Vodafone and Fonterra. He is also a Life Member of the XL Results Foundation.

You will want to see Mark and hear about the powerful mind-shifts that can bring you breakthroughs in your personal and business relationships.

Mark’s background in human development, change, finance, and business growth, have given him a dynamic understanding of the “X factors” needed for business and personal success.

As a Trainer, Facilitator and Consultant, Mark is amazing. Qualified in several areas of human development and personal change, he utilises and teaches skills in NLP, Business Leadership, Executive Development and Performance Coaching.

Now based in CPL’s Auckland office, Mark is also qualified in “Spiral Dynamics” – the map of insights for understanding values and change in people and organisations.

You can find out more about Mark and the courses he offers at


00:19 Introduction
10:03 Discovering mBraining
16:47 Balanced breathing
26:10 A transformational process
32:01 Changing people’s lives
41:12 Changing relationships
47:25 Future plans


Mark 0:04
You’re listening to the mBraining show, a show about the new field of mBIT, where you’ll get a blend of neuroscience based research with practical applications for wise living. And now, here’s your host, Bill Gasiamis.

Bill 0:19
Good day everyone. And thank you for tuning into The mBraining Show. This episode of The mBraining Show is brought to you by, one of the world’s leading mBIT coach certification providers.

Bill 0:35
If you have heard about mBraining and you’d like to know more, you’ve come to the right place. The desire to share more about me and learn more about you is what inspired me to take this show from an idea that originated in my heart to taking gutsy action, with some creativity from the head brain, to gain the knowledge and bring together all the pieces of the puzzle that make this show possible.

Bill 1:00
Multiple Brain Integration Techniques is the coaching modality that coaches to your client head, brain, heart, brain and gut brain giving you as a coach and your client insights during the coaching session that you cannot get by just coaching to the head level. And as a result, giving more value to your client making your coaching practice stand out in a crowded coaching landscape.

Bill 1:29
If you are in Australia and you would like to know more about when the next mBIT coach certification is being held, go to and click the mBIT workshops link for more details.

Bill 1:44
Today’s guest is Mark Klassen. Mark is a certified NLP Master Trainer, certified mBIT coach trainer, group facilitator and business consultant to some of New Zealand’s largest companies including in New Zealand ISP bank, Fletcher’s Vodafone and frontiera.

Bill 2:06
He’s also a lifetime member of the XL results foundation. Mark’s background in human development change, finance and business growth have given him a dynamic understanding of the x factors needed for business and personal success. As a china facilitator and consultant mark is qualified in several areas of human development and personal change.

Bill 2:35
He utilizes and teaches skills in NLP, business leadership, executive development and performance coaching. Now based in CPL’s, Auckland office that mark is also a qualified in spiral dynamics, the map of insights for understanding values and change in people and organizations. For more about mark and the work that he does, you can go to his website And now on with the interview. Welcome to the program. Mark Klassen.

Mark 3:26
Hello there Bill. How you doing?

Bill 3:28
Doing well there mate? Did I pronounce that surname correctly?

Mark 3:32
You did exactly right Klassen just like going into school.

Bill 3:38
Yeah. Fair enough. Now, how’s it going over there on the other side of the ditch mate, you know, us Australian folk, we’d love to know that you guys are doing well over there.

Mark 3:51
Yeah, Sunday is always that friendly ribbing between the two countries and how many sheep we’ve gotten all that sort of thing. But you know, we’re doing pretty well. Everything’s alive and well, and even some of our sports teams are doing well. So that’s good.

Bill 4:03
Yeah, thanks for throwing that one in. I knew that was coming. So I thought I’d get out of the way sooner rather than later. Mark tell me a little bit about yourself, because I’ve gone through and had a bit of a read of your bio, and it’s quite extensive.

Bill 4:21
And I’ll ask this of a number of people, how do you fit so many amazing things into such a bio like, it’s really amazing the amount of stuff that you’ve done, tell me a little bit about yourself and how that came to be?

Mark 4:37
Sure. And briefly, my background, when I left school, I spent the first seven years or so working for ANZ bank, as in commercial lending and business finance. That gave me a good background for understanding business and how business works and working with a lot of people who own businesses in quite a different direction. I went into college Unity services for more than a decade.

Mark 5:03
And, and also during that time, I was actually a Baptist minister for a number of years. And that was a very different tangent to life. But it gave me opportunity to do a lot of the things that I really enjoy to do, which is around developing people and teaching and educating.

Mark 5:23
And also, for me, being in the ministry was not about preaching on a Sunday, it was more about, you know, putting the things you believe into action, whatever those are. And so we established a Community Trust that was very much on the ground and doing things there.

Mark 5:42
So then, after some time, I decided that that was long enough in that for me, and I wanted to go back into the business world again. I By the way, during the community service years, I worked for a couple of years in a psychiatric hospital, because I knew a few people who had psychiatric illnesses, and it was a key thing for me to be able to do something useful to help them.

Mark 6:06
And, of course, on the process of that, I learned a lot about us as human beings and myself and so on. And some people say I should have never got out of the hospital that friends do like to review any case. So 1992 was a bit of a crisis time for me personally, because I also got so busy in my work that I ended up in a marriage breakup from my first marriage.

Mark 6:39
And found myself in a in a crisis because I, within a few weeks, lost effectively, my, my wife and my family and my job and my home, and my main source of income. So it was, it was a very difficult time.

Bill 6:58
Yes, I think a lot of people could relate to I imagine.

Mark 7:01
Yeah, I think that’s becoming increasingly the case these days, so many people in relationships that are not working out, but as well as many crises that were the crossroads of opportunity for me as well. And it gave me the time to reflect on how I was doing life and me and what I really wanted to be doing differently, and quite reorganized my priorities.

Mark 7:26
And so I, amongst other things, went out and started my own business and doing training, and coaching and strategic consulting, I found that a lot of my skills were very transferable. And in 1996, I came across the subject of NLP neuro linguistic programming.

Mark 7:47
I did my first NLP training with a trainer from Australia at the time, sort of built from there to the A few years later, I became an NLP trainer myself, because I found that that was something that made a profound impact on me.

Mark 8:03
For the first time I had skills that were beyond just general counseling, I actually had skills for managing my life and managing my emotional states and managing unuseful beliefs and ways that I was thinking and things that didn’t support me. And prior to that, I’ve never really known how to handle that type of thing.

Mark 8:23
And it’s not that it’s perfect. Now, it’s just that simply, there are actually ways that we work as a human being and there are ways to ways and tools and techniques to be able to more usefully do your life. And so that was a amazing discovery for me. Yeah. And that gave me the passion to want to work with other people and do that.

Bill 8:43
Yeah, it’s quite a powerful thing I can relate to a little bit of that experience that you had when you discovered this set of tools that you implemented on your own life and then realize that they’re teachable and then we can teach other people I sort of discovered something similar.

Bill 8:59
I started my you know campaign while not my campaign, my work with mBraining and I know that you worked closely with some people that are involved in mBraining community and we’ll get to them in a moment. So you’ve been an NLP trainer since 1996. And I imagine you’ve done.

Mark 9:18
Actually since the year 2000. I did prac and non NLP practitioner and 96 but I became an i formally qualified as a you know, a trainer in the year 2000.

Bill 9:28
Right okay. And you’ve been running NLP practitioner certifications and master practitioner and all the certifications from then on?

Mark 9:38
Yeah, let’s try and then in more recent years 2005 I became an NLP master trainer and a bit later after that, after working with Wyatt, and Marvin Oka. I now run my own trainer trainings as well. On behalf of the International NLP trainers Association.

Bill 9:59
I did one of Marvins only sort of recent certifications, practitioner certifications in 2013, early 2013. And, that was a really profound experience. And that was just after I had experienced mBraining. Which brings me to asking you about how you came across mBraining? When did you discover it?

Mark 10:34
Well, I’ve known Marvin Oka since the year 2000. He was initially one of my trainers in the process of becoming an NLP trainer. And we hit it off pretty well. And he’s been a friend and mentor ever since. Certainly somebody who has shaped not just my training, but several aspects of how I do life and business and all sorts of things. He’s an amazing guy.

Mark 11:01
So I’ve known him for a long time. And then in, when was that? Let me say about March 2012. I think Ivan rang me up one day, he was in Melbourne, I was here in Auckland. And he said, Mark, when are you coming over to Australia next? And I said, next month, as it happens, I’m coming over in April, I’ve got some business over there.

Mark 11:23
And he said, Great. Let’s set up a time to meet because I want you to meet Grant. I said, well, who’s Grant? And he said a friend and colleague of mine, we’ve been working on this exciting thing about multiple brains and all that sort of thing. First, I thought, well, multiple brains is maybe just stuff I’d heard before about, you know, your musical brain or your emotional brain or your whatever, you know, these types of things.

Mark 11:48
But anyway, we ended up one day in April, sitting in a Japanese restaurant, and the three of us having a meal together. And they began to tell me about embracing and they were really, really buzzing and buzzing with it and and talking about some of the conversations that they’ve been having over time.

Mark 12:08
Whereby, you know, there was all this research around the world, and nobody had pulled it together. So they told me about the book that they’re just about finished writing. And they said they wanted to run a course and asked whether Eileen and I, my wife and myself would use connections and database over here in Auckland, to pull together a group of NLP people at that time to be the pilot course, for mBraining.

Mark 12:38
For the mBIT coach course in the world. And so in July 2012, we ended up running the first ever course in the world here in Auckland. And it all grew from there. So, you know, I worked a lot with Marvin and grant and co trained courses with him. And subsequently became the first mBIT coach trainer in the world other than the two founders.

Mark 13:00
And I’ve been passionately keen about it ever since then, because it’s just amazing stuff. That’s our most popular course. And people, even if people haven’t learned NLP, or haven’t learned any self development before, I’ve had people come into embracing and go, wow, this is incredible. How come they don’t teach this in school University, you know, this is just really breakthrough for them. And as you probably know, Bill, it’s spreading around the world pretty fast. It’s in 20 countries now Grant tells me so.

Bill 13:30
Yeah, it’s in 20 countries, we’re approaching near on 1000 trained coaches and I think somewhere around the vicinity of in excess of, I think 70 trainers. The program that I’m doing now The mBraining Show has had downloads only after seven episodes has had nearly 600 downloads in 15 countries.

Mark 13:53

Bill 13:54
So we’re really making an impact out there and I think what why it’s growing so rapidly is because of the same experience that you had. That’s the same experience I had when I set in my November 2012 pilot program that was running Melbourne which I think was the second or the third one and I had I didn’t have an NLP background.

Bill 14:17
And I didn’t have any type of self development background other than the old Anthony Robbins kind of stuff which kind of left me felt feel a little bit deflated after the the whole buzz had gone away but that’s another issue for another day.

Mark 14:34
Tony has been good for my business actually because he uses a lot of NLP but he doesn’t actually teach NLP courses anymore so we get quite a lot of referrals because he says to people if you want to go learn NLP then go to a course.

Bill 14:50
Yeah, look, I don’t doubt it. I don’t doubt that he’s been good for the, for the all of the community that’s sort of out there and promoting, you know, self development, personal development courses. It’s just that, you know, I think I found in mBraining, something that was missing from what the tone is of the world we’re delivering, even though it was amazing.

Bill 15:11
And it was something that I had to experience and shaped a lot of the things that I did to change the way that I was doing my life. There was something missing. And I think what was missing for me was, you know, this place that the mBIT model comes from. So I know now as a trainer, myself as well, in Australia, my aim is to train coaches and give them an insight into, you know, the mBraining model to enhance what it is that they’re already doing, which is already awesome, right?

Mark 15:44
It is indeed, compatible with a lot of what other people are doing if they learn this model in its own right, and really get it properly. Yeah, you can blend it in with so many other things.

Bill 15:55
Yeah. So why I’m what I’m curious to ask you about is how has your experience been with now getting, as we teach in our courses to get our client aligned before a coaching session? How has your experience been when you’re delivering that part of the training, you know, to your coaches?

Bill 16:16
So perhaps, I imagine at some point, some of them may have already experienced a breathing exercise or a meditation or something along the lines of that, but I have had you come across people who had been doing breathing exercises during coaching?

Bill 16:34
And if not, now that you’ve introduced that into their sort of toolkit, how has that changed their experience of coaching? And what do you find has changed for you with the way that you teach your courses?

Mark 16:48
Great question. Now this whole balance breathing thing is new to quite a number of people in terms of that form of breathing. To be quite honest about it, there’s quite a variety of people come into the courses from people who have done no self development, through the people who have done lots of self development. And all of them find that there’s something new.

Mark 17:11
You get people, for example, who have done yoga before, and in the course of learning yoga, they’ve always done some element of breathing. But often the breathing is quite different. You know, they might have done Foursquare breathing, or they might have done, you know, short breathing long breath out, or these types of things for relaxation.

Mark 17:32
Sometimes people have done meditation, they’ve got a different space they’re coming from. So but I guess the the, the common factor is, once I introduce it, people are willing to experiment with it and willing to try it out. And, you know, after we’ve done the course, among all the amazing things that you know, people learn in an embracing course.

Mark 17:55
If I talked to people a month or two later, probably the most common thing they say this, say they’re still using a lot of is the balance breathing. And they say that’s just so useful for getting myself in the right space before I go to a meeting or when I got upset about something, or when I really need to be able to get in a good focused, resourceful space or something like that.

Mark 18:17
And, you know, even though there are so many other tools and techniques in braining, the breathing is essentially important. It affects people’s biology and their ability to really get in touch with their three intelligences.

Bill 18:31
Yeah, that’s certainly been my experience. I I use it throughout the day as well, Mark, one of the things that I found really interesting with the balanced breathing was how it’s helped me to achieve a better level of sleep at night.

Bill 18:45
So if I get myself balanced before I go to bed, yeah, just a five minute exercise of breathing in for six seconds and breathing out for six seconds to the to the bell to the mp3 file that’s available at m Yes, I find that I have a more solid, more restful sleep.

Bill 19:06
And I often wake up feeling very different, which then sets me up for a way are way more resourceful day. And if I check back and notice the days that I wasn’t resourceful and didn’t get much done, it often came after a day of sort of a high amount of workload, stress, whatever you want to call it.

Bill 19:28
And then not finding a way to balance my autonomic nervous system. And then that led me into an unsettled sleep, which then followed on with the next day, that wasn’t as resourceful as I would have liked.

Mark 19:41
Yeah, I absolutely agree. And I can relate with it very strongly. There’s a big connection correlation between when you’ve got yourself in a balanced space through breathing and some of the other techniques of in bit coaching. You got to apply it to yourself first if it’s not applied to you And then you’re probably not going to come from a very aligned space when you’re trying to work with anyone else.

Bill 20:05
Yeah, yeah, I love that. Because often when we sort of go to courses we, I know, I’m talking from experience, I learned what I learned, and then tried to implement that with others, but didn’t implement the learnings myself. So didn’t really have a first hand experience of what it really means to live a philosophy. Yeah,

Mark 20:29
And for me, one of the things Bill has been, as this is a piece I’ve really noticed is, the more often I’m doing balanced breathing, the less internal conflict I’ve got, and the less stress I’m experiencing, and it’s really quite something that has made a huge difference to me on an emotional level and an energy level.

Mark 20:53
It is something that, you know, I used to get, I give myself a lot more anxiety than what I needed. And part of it was because of how I was thinking and disconnecting from some of my own resources. And the balance, breathing has just helped me to have a, I guess, a lot more self connectedness, in, in how I relate with myself, and therefore how I relate with other people. makes a massive difference.

Bill 21:21
Yeah, I imagine it makes a massive difference, not only in your personal life, but also that translate into the business world. And it translate into the conversations that you’re having with people and you’re able to have more memory, right, when I say sort of more meaningful conversations.

Mark 21:40
Yes, that’s very true. I mean, the conversations are, for me are a key part of what makes a leader a good leader. As I briefly mentioned to you at another time, Bill, I spend quite a bit of time developing people, as conscious leaders, as we call it these days and around leadership courses, amongst other things.

Mark 22:02
And, you know, from from my perspective, one of the things I talk about with them is that the conversations that you have with yourself, and also with the people around you will have the biggest effect and influence that you can ever have in any way. The the quality of conversation is something that having quality conversations are something that a lot of people are missing out on.

Mark 22:26
And people need to get themselves into that sort of space first, because not just everybody can have quality conversations. Maybe not coming from a very internally aligned space. But also, you know, that it was a lot of people don’t know themselves very well.

Mark 22:41
So no, they need to learn about themselves. They haven’t learned the three brain in but techniques. Sometimes about I’m working with people, we teach the enneagram as well personality model that flows very well with this because in in the enneagram model of personalities, which is perhaps the most deep and profound model of personalities that’s available.

Bill 23:10
So Mark, tell me a little bit about if a leader becomes aware that they want to increase the quality of the conversations that they’re having. So they notice it’s a bit of a weakness, for example. How do we help leaders develop those quality conversations? You know, is there a way that that can be learned?

Mark 23:35
Yeah, I found that there’s these four components to it from my point of view, and this is the essence of what I’ve put together and my leadership course, because these things, to to get these four things, and to then be able to come from that very integrated space is what enables a person to be somebody who can have quality conversations.

Mark 23:59
So the first thing that I want to teach people is from the enneagram to understand their own personality. The second thing that I want them to get is embracing to be able to understand their three intelligences and how to work with those to put yourself in a resourceful place.

Mark 24:19
The third thing that I want to give them is the appropriate range of NLP related skills. And generally, I’m putting them through at least a practitioner course in that regard. And the fourth thing is to give them an understanding of other people’s models of the world, which I usually do through the spiral dynamics model. I don’t know if you’re familiar with that at all.

Bill 24:39
Personally, I’m aware of their model but I haven’t studied it.

Mark 24:43
Okay, it’s basically an amazing map of how we, it arises from it remember, Maslow Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, and unless I do you recall that Yeah, so that was way back in the 40s and 50s or somewhere else. They’re one of one of my students was a guy called Claire graves.

Mark 25:05
And he took Maslow’s work with Maslow’s permission, and traveled the world looking at all the different cultures in the world and went to nearly every country in the world to discover if Maslow’s theory was correct. And out of that, what he, what he came up with is this amazing map of how we all evolve in our life, in response to our life conditions.

Mark 25:26
And no matter what country or culture we’re in, we develop values based coping systems and ways of thinking to deal with for whatever individual becomes an increasingly complex way of life. And there are different so many, there are several different models of the world where there’s a pattern through it all. And that’s essentially what spiral dynamics is about.

Mark 25:48
And when people come to understand this, and they can notice, well, you know, what worldview is this one of my colleagues coming from what will be on my coming from, it makes a big difference. So, you know, it takes, it takes some time to develop the person to become a quality conversationalist bill, because it’s not just learning stuff or information.

Mark 26:10
It’s actually a transformational process of yourself, understanding yourself, well, understanding how to work your three brains, understanding some of the things of NLP, and spiral gives you such a wider range of ability and leaders who have been through this, people who can build these quality conversations, because they’re coming from that type of space.

Mark 26:34
Here’s some of the like the changes that I noticed, they have changes in their awareness, they’ve got much greater awareness, and the feedback that they get is from the from their teams from this stuff, is, you’re actually getting me a lot better than you’re worth, you’re actually seem to really get where I’m coming from.

Mark 26:52
And also, these people are making more effective decisions and implementing their decisions with more consideration of their team, and more engagement of their team. And that brings about a much greater cooperation between leaders and their teams and getting things done, much less stressful.

Mark 27:13
Because the conversations that they have facilitate for everything to happen, and that really matters so much in a day when there’s so many, well, what a name, but we tend to call head on legs managers.

Bill 27:26
Yeah, we’ll get to those guys in a minute. It’s a unique breed. But I know that there’s a lot of the majority of managers these days sort of try and operate from the head up, and I know brings them cause a lot of challenges, we’ll get to that in a moment, I just want to pick up on another thing that you said about, it’s not just about learning a new skill or modality, or whatever we want to call it.

Bill 27:52
I found that a lot of my success in really learning something and embodying it came from being coached in that particular modality, it was certainly something that I benefit from and made me appreciate and branding more when, after my coach certification, I engaged with an mBIT coach who was also an NLP trained person.

Bill 28:15
And then I got to experience firsthand, you know, in braining, as a coach, then I had the experience as a trainer, and then also as somebody who had been coached. So it was more a more kind of like, holistic approach to the training model. Tell me about how important it is for people.

Bill 28:37
Regardless of what they learn to sort of Zen take what they’ve learned and live it from that, you know, a space of being coached being making themselves available to really embody that knowledge that they’ve picked up. How important is that?

Mark 28:58
So important. You know, when people first learn about this, it makes sense to them, for the majority of people, as was my experience, probably yours as well, I suppose, when they start to hear about these three brains, and especially when you get to the part of the course we’re introducing the prime functions of each brain, the three prime functions of each brain and they come to realize, well, you know, your head looks after the predictables.

Mark 29:27
Conscious awareness and making meaning and thinking and logic and all that sort of stuff. But when you get to that part, we say there’s literally an intelligence in your heart. That is the center of your values of your emotional self, your relational self, and all that of connecting in how you feel about stuff.

Mark 29:45
And then you’ve got the gut brain, your identity center, self preservation, the ability to get yourself into action, or when you hold yourself back from action and you procrastinate, you start talking about those things there and they go well, I really get that relates to me, I must have a problem and that area or that area, and they start to link it into what’s happening for themselves.

Mark 30:07
And they go, I’ve never understood, I just thought I had, you know, harebrained stuff going on basically, is what it comes down to. But, but then they go, Well, you know, some people they find they’ve got a two brain relationship, it’s like, inside themselves, it’s like, they know, my head thinks, and my gut does, but my heart doesn’t come into it.

Mark 30:27
And so I can relationally engage, I can emotionally engage with people, I get disconnected, I get dissociated. I, I find that it’s like we’re almost me over here in New over the year sort of thing, you know, yeah. This distance. Yeah. Yeah. And it’s just, it’s like a, it’s like a new toy. For the, it’s, it’s like one of those experiences where you go, How come I’ve never seen this before.

Mark 30:54
Or you get somebody who’s got brain was quite disconnected, like, for, especially some people who have had a big procrastination problem, or they’ve had a significant number of fears in their life. And they’ve held back from being who they could really be, you know, this, this area of discovery is great, because they begin to go, Well, maybe I can begin to trust again, more fully.

Mark 31:19
People around me or I can trust myself, and maybe get past some of these things that I’ve been fearing and embracing justice. so helpful with this. Yeah. And so first, it’s getting an awareness of what these brains are, therefore, and that they actually do particular functions, and then communicating with them and learning to run them. It’s like, you know, people think like having to learn a coaching course only how to coach other people.

Mark 31:46
But then they get in the experience of it, and they go, I don’t care about never have like one guy in Melbourne that was recently said, I don’t care if I never catch another person. This has just been so much for me. I’m the one who needed coaching. Yeah. And I had no clue on that before I came along.

Bill 32:01
Yeah. And that’s the amazing thing we do we bring people in, we tell them, here’s a bunch of tools, you’re going to learn to go and change other people’s lives. And the first life that changes is the person who came into the course to do the course. So Sure. And really, isn’t that the most amazing model?

Bill 32:16
Isn’t that the way everything, you know, everyone would benefit from it experiencing something like that, because then it’s okay. So as a coach, what I encourage as a trainer, what I do is I encourage all my coaches to be coached all the time or as often as they possibly can.

Bill 32:32
And so that we can deal with our stuff, and then hold a bit of space for the clients that are walking into our room. And we haven’t got our own biases that are sort of taking over and potentially mucking up that coaching session. Yeah. So I love what you’re saying I can really relate to it’s really awesome.

Bill 32:51
Now, I also had this, I had this amazing experience, which I’m sure you’ve heard about because I never stopped talking about it. I am, I experienced three brain hemorrhages in the last four years. I’m a lot better than I was, and I’m recovering and it’s been dealt with.

Bill 33:07
So it’s not going to happen again. Right. But the amazing thing about that amongst all the challenges that it created was that my head switched off, right. And as a business owner, it forced me to connect to my heart, and to take action with my gut, which I didn’t know at the time, because I hadn’t done done the branding course, I didn’t know was happening.

Bill 33:30
But I did find a better version of connection with the people around me. And my business flourished. After my first blade, and after I was no longer available to be the face to face Person of the business. I was kind of a guy in the background, and I, you know, mobilized troops, so to speak, to go out there and get all the work done that needed to be done.

Bill 33:53
And I had a massive increase in the business turnover. Well, so I’ve really experienced this and I wanted to ask you a question about the leaders who are head based, the ones who haven’t worked out like may prior to my experience, that there is a another way that we can connect with people and sort of move them towards very outcomes and the business’s outcomes.

Bill 34:21
What’s the effect of people who sort of operate from the head up in a leadership position? What do they sort of come across as being their challenges? And that perhaps they’re not aware of?

Mark 34:36
Big question there. Firstly, thank you for sharing what you did about your own situation and health and the difference that it made I haven’t heard that apart before. So secondly, welcome to Mac class and who used to be way too much he had brain for years and years.

Mark 34:57
And I guess until mBraining, I didn’t realize just how much that I was still carrying quite a bit of that. And I think until you make the discovery of how you can be different, you don’t know how to be different, even if you know that you’re not doing what you want to be doing.

Mark 35:18
And, you know, you get most of the people I’m dealing with in my courses are business people, their business owners, or their corporate managers or leaders or something like that. And a lot of them come to a course, looking for something and not really knowing what it is they’re really looking for, they just know more, what things are not working for them.

Mark 35:39
And that’s a good place to want to discover from. There are some who have got blind spots, they’ve got a scotoma. Because you know, that don’t know that this staff described them as just a logical hidden brain know, it will manage it with very little relational connection.

Mark 35:57
And they, their complaint is why am I staff not engaged, and I tell them about the tasks and I tell them what I want them to do, and I try to be polite to them or whatever. And I Why are they not engaged. But sometimes, if I’m going into a business and coaching and working with somebody to develop their leadership capacity.

Mark 36:17
So if it’s all just facts, and data and make sense and get on with the job, please and do your task and give me results quicker and cause me any problems and relationships, because I don’t really know how to work them at any. It’s no wonder if people get stressed, including you outside of this.

Bill 36:34
Especially if they’re a bloke I know hoping and working.

Mark 36:38
Sometimes. So in the mBraining leadership style, and you’re leading from a more integrated space and and in finding their patterns, not actually softness, and weakness and so on. They used to be perceived in that way. And some of them used to think oh, well, you know, if I can just lead from a smart IQ and a logical mind and a powerful presence that’s going to get me everywhere.

Mark 37:04
I’ve been working with a guy from one of the banks, through the course of this year are actually more than one reasonably senior leaders and, you know, finding there that there’s a real want to, to discover, how can I get more engagement? How can I be more connected leader, once they become aware of this, they really want it.

Mark 37:25
And that connectivity from your heart brain, and your strong sense of, of courage and leading. And being a visionary leader, it all sort of melds together and people follow these leaders better, once they’re integrated, once they’ve been through this, this process, because when you’re asking me what is it about mBIT and mBraining well.

Mark 37:49
When these leaders are leading from feelings and values, responses, and acknowledging their own highs and lows, they become more vulnerable and accessible in a good way to their team around them. And they go, I can relate to that, you know, and this develops a different relationship not only between the leader and their team.

Mark 38:09
But they also, here’s a comment that I’ve had back that I really liked, that it seems to be helping them helping my team people develop a different relationship with their work. And they’re valuing the work more. And the happier with it. And the more self motivated, and I’m sharing some of this stuff with them that I learned on mBraining.

Mark 38:29
And this, you know that it quite appealed to me this line that one of these leaders used about developed people developing a different relationship with their work, because of embracing that coming from a different space to their work and their relationship with their work is a different thing.

Bill 38:47
So then it becomes it becomes effortless. It’s not about making people conform, do the work, etc. It’s just about connecting to them. And then as a result of them feeling the connection relating to you and your challenges in the business, which are similar to their challenges in the business. We all have bills and all that kind of stuff to buy. But it seems to just bring them along, rather than drag them along.

Mark 39:12
Yeah, I think so. And, and there’s two aspects to it. here’s here’s a balance factor that really applies and is, is well regarded by corporate leaders in particular, and some business owners to now that I think about that. Because some of them are going here, but it’s all just heart connection and so on and you’re at risk of becoming too weak and vulnerable and emotional.

Mark 39:35
And people take advantage of you and say, well hang on, hang about this, take them on board this other part of as well because with your gut brain. People need a strong courageous leader and somebody who’s got some backbone. They need also to be able to trust the leader and to feel like you’re in a safe zone with your leader and you’ve got my back, you know, just want my effort and my results.

Mark 39:59
And when they’ve got somebody who’s been there as a well aligned, integrated leader who’s making the tough calls and dealing with the tough issues, and also has a heart, this is a new breed. This is another being, you know, that’s not just the Mr. Tough or Mr. IQ. This is actually somebody who’s courageous and has had. And if they don’t, they don’t really get why they’re, why their staff get distant or defense for resistant or those sorts of things.

Mark 40:30
And why there’s a lack of engagement. But there’s a there’s an increased respect for a leader who’s been through this type of stuff. And as this gradually gets more and more, especially the ones who regularly practice, they’re embracing stuff, because yeah, you always get odd people who come to a course and they don’t do much with it. But the ones that are revisiting this, and some some have come back to review the course because they go, I want to get it even better.

Bill 40:54
Yeah. That’s my experience as well. So I think I learned most of the stuff that I learned, after my trainers training, when I set in the trainings that other trainers ran as a not as a participant as an observer helping out in the back of the room.

Bill 41:12
I just took my learning to another level. I wonder, then one of the side effects, have you noticed this, because this is something that I noticed in my own life, have you noticed people that come in for a business understanding of mBraining, telling you that their relationships with their children at home has changed or with their wife.

Mark 41:31
For sure, for sure. Yeah. You know, yes. And not everybody, and what’s the difference between the two, and some people still trying to compartmentalize. And some of them, you always get the occasional person, fortunately, not the majority, there’s always the occasional person who doesn’t actually apply it, they’re still trying to keep it at a head level. And so there’s a there’s like a resistance.

Mark 41:59
And this is where not just coming to an embracing course. But doing coaching with people makes a big difference. Because for those people, they really need the personal breakthrough. And to further their process beyond just what they learn. And of course, you know, there are some people who, who come to a course in the very resistant around stuff.

Mark 42:24
And the other course gets them so far, that there’s that odd one who, who really needs the personal breakthrough. And the reason I’m raising this is because this particular person that I have in mind, Whose marriage was on the line. And they would, they didn’t feel like they could really fully involve, as they were doing our course from my headspace.

Mark 42:52
But afterwards, came to a different set of conclusions and said, Well, actually, by the end of the course, I got that there’s something very real about this, there’s something more deep than what I actually let myself go to during the course, and kind of do some further work about this.

Mark 43:09
And that’s great. I admire that courage, because, you know, not everybody has the the Wonder experience straightaway going through the course, that when somebody got the courage to stand up and say, I know, this was this is something that’s got more to it than what I acknowledged at the beginning, and I missed about this time round, I want to get it.

Mark 43:30
I mean, there’s another person who was in one of my courses recently, who’s a, he’s a scientist, and, you know, this person was, she was coming from a place of skepticism coming to the brain and goals. But by the end of it, she got that there’s something really significant here and it’s personal impact in her own life.

Mark 43:53
And, and I give all credit to these people, when they actually go, I’m going to allow this and I’m going to let it permeate my being I’m going to let myself engage with this. Because something that sometimes people have been coming from quite a different model of the world, haven’t they?

Bill 44:09
Yeah, absolutely. My experience has been similar and we have always the odd person who finds it a little challenging and you know, what I would say to them is just make no meaning make no meaning of what it is that’s going on and just allow it to become part of your new learnings and then see how it applies later on when when you’ve had time to integrate and understand what it’s about.

Bill 44:33
And then from there, take it to the next place if you feel that the time’s right, you know, it’s completely up to them. But you know, I do understand why people get challenged I think I would have been one of those people had I done the course when I was completely well and healthy and hadn’t had a bleed in the brain because I was a bit of a headcase you know, put my hands up and, and, and caught that one.

Bill 44:56
I was a bit of a head case and people often called me a head case and then I realized, oh my god, there is an actual reason why they’re calling me a head case, I am living my life from the shoulders up. And it’s not getting me the outcomes that I want. It’s just frustrating me and the people around me. And it appears as though things are harder to achieve than they actually are.

Bill 45:17
And you know what, even if we can achieve something in that particular instance, doesn’t mean we’ve failed. And it doesn’t mean we won’t be able to achieve success later on in another way, if we just find a different approach to sort of that challenge. So I completely get it.

Bill 45:33
And I’m glad that I’m not the only trainer that’s a had that experience with some participants, because it can make a tough for them. And sometimes your heart goes out to them, you know, and you want to feel like you know, what, I wish I could sort of give you the the key to unlock the path that you need to go down to discover how amazing your experience could be. And it’s difficult when you can’t do that for them sometimes, at least I find that a bit a bit tough.

Mark 46:01
I think to Bill, when you’re when you’ve got people like No, of course, whether you’re sampling, if you want them to get real, and engage, you really have to be real yourself as the trainer. And I don’t know, maybe two or three courses back I got asked. So now you’ve been doing the same braining stuff for a few years.

Mark 46:23
Do a waiver, not in balance? What do you mean to say as the trainer No, I live my life perfectly. What’s the reality? My life is often out of balance. But the great thing about it as I’ve got the tools to quite quickly get myself back in balance. Yeah, I love it. It’s no different to me, you know, if you were you know how to eat a good balanced diet.

Mark 46:48
And you say you eat a good balanced diet a lot of the time, but do you ever get out of balance? Do you ever go eat stuff that you just love to eat and find yourself getting out of balance? So, you know, what do you got to do? Well, you know, it’s about redressing the balance. And the more real that we are with people, the more permission we give them that it’s okay to blow it to be failed to be a real person and learn how to do it differently.

Bill 47:12
Yeah, I love that place. You’re coming from Mark. That’s amazing. Tell me what’s in the pipeline for coms plus in the next months, weeks years?

Mark 47:25
Yeah, sure. Well, in terms of in terms of embracing, of course, on both sides of the Tasman, with my training, so we’ve got an in bit coach course in Auckland from four to seven March 2016. And annex one in Melbourne is 22 to 25, April 2016. And I’m actually going to be living in Melbourne for the month of April 2016, we’re going to be doing a few different courses over there. If anybody’s interested, I won’t bother with all the dates right now.

Mark 48:00
But over the over the January and April time, we’ve got the enneagram personality course running as well. I also wanted to mention that there’s been a bit of a lack of, you know, p courses available good quality NLP courses available in Melbourne. I was talking to Marvin about this a while back. And so I’m planning to run NLP practitioner from July to November next year.

Mark 48:27
And the reason I mentioned that is because people who have done mBIT, and they might like to learn NLP, because they’ve already done in but and if they can, you know, bring their certificate and say yes, I’m already an mBIT certified coach, then we will give them a discounted price off, they will give them 20% off the prep course which is and I want to give these to people who have already shown a serious intention to want to engage with development in leadership and affecting other people’s lives. Well, so does anyone wants to do their second app for next year?

Bill 49:02
That’s good, actually. Because I find also that a lot of people who haven’t done NLP that have become mBIT coaches like to kind of backfill I suppose if that’s the right term with NLP knowing that sort of mBraining emerged from NLP and a great sort of foundation Yeah, in some part from a great foundation of NLP. And I think it does bring a lot of value. I certainly got a lot out of doing my NLP practitioner and, and and then use a lot of those skills, you know, in an mBraining coaching session with my clients.

Mark 49:42
Yeah, makes a difference. It does. It

Bill 49:43
Makes a huge difference. So where can people find out more details about the courses? Where would they go?

Mark 49:52
Yeah, we’ve got a couple of websites but probably the easiest one to to refer people to is So NLP for neuro linguistic programming. That’s for the Australian people. It’s not .com. It’s .co. For the americans .nz.

Bill 50:20
Or I mark Well, I’ll also put those details on the description of our podcast. So yeah, go back there and find those details. Well, I really do. Appreciate your time. Thanks for letting me know about how well your sports teams are doing at the moment against us Aussies.

Mark 50:39
That’s alright, you might take us out on the cricket.

Bill 50:43
He’s hoping.

Mark 50:45
Great to talk with you Bill. And I think it’s a fantastic initiative that you’ve got the you’re embracing, show, caring and helping spread the word through not only your trainings, but also this, this website and the podcast. So all the very best for that.

Bill 51:00
I really do appreciate it, Mark. And if anyone listening out there wants to get in touch and talk him raining. Please just visit the website, drop me a line. I’ll respond to that. And we can start a conversation and maybe even do an interview on a topic that interests them. Mark, thank you so much for being available for me and giving us your time. I really look forward to getting to know you a lot more from here on and I look forward to maybe catching up with you even in April.

Mark 51:33
Yeah. Or in January. I’m over there the first two weeks, so we might catch up then.

Bill 51:36
Yeah, brilliant, mate. Thanks so much all the best. And keep doing what you’re doing. I’m really loving it.

Mark 51:43
Cheers. Thanks a lot, Bill, bye for now.

Bill 51:46
Well, there you go. Guys. That’s another episode of The mBraining Show. Thank you so much for tuning in and listening and giving me some of your time, I really do appreciate it. I also appreciate the amazing feedback and comments that we’ve had so far, and all the beautiful warm wishes.

Bill 52:04
If you are living in a country that does not currently have somebody running an ambit coach certification, please do get in touch by going to the website, and filling out the contact form. And I will be sure to get in touch to see how we might be able to support you where you live to have an ambit coach certification run in your country.

Bill 52:29
If you would like to have a speaker at your next event to talk about mBraining, visit And once again fill out the contact form and I will be in touch to see how we can also make that happen. So Until the next episode, thank you so much for listening to The mBraining Show and tuning in to mBIT radio.

Mark 52:53
The presenters and special guests of this podcast intend to provide accurate and helpful information to their listeners. These podcasts can not take into consideration individual circumstances and are not intended to be a substitute for independent medical advice from a qualified health professional.

Mark 53:11
You should always seek the advice from a qualified health professional before acting on any of the information provided by any of the transit lounge podcast. This has been a production of check us out on Facebook and start a conversation

Mark 53:31
Subscribe to each show on iTunes and check us out on Twitter. The mBraining Show we’d like to acknowledge and thank mBIT International for their support with the show wants to know more about mBraining? Visit

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