Welcome to the Kathryn - Elisabeth podcast, where amazing things happen.
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Crime Insiders, a LiSTNR Original Production, takes you beyond true crime. In groundbreaking interviews hosted by former police officer Brent Sanders and former GP & best-selling author Kathryn Fox, explore the world of policing, forensics, and more through the stories of the world’s most experienced and decorated experts.
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In the Talking Indonesia podcast, Dr Jemma Purdey, Dr Jacqui Baker, Tito Ambyo and Dr Elisabeth Kramer present an extended interview each fortnight with experts on Indonesian politics, foreign policy, culture, language and more. Find all the Talking Indonesia podcasts and more at the Indonesia at Melbourne blog.
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FORENSICS: Inside the $24 billion illegal wildlife trade
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The illegal wildlife trade is a multi billion dollar industry, raking in an estimated $24 million globally. And in Australia, our unique reptiles are hotter commodities than ever, with single animals fetching tens of thousands of dollars on the black market. This lucrative trade attracts in criminals from transnational organized crime networks, who…
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DETECTIVES: The Christmas Card Confession
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In 1980, three friends were travelling on the South Western Highway from Perth to Harvey. They encountered a slight bend in the road and crashed into a tree. One of the friends, Terry, died at the scene, the two others escaped with minor injuries. Investigations to find who was responsible began, but, both friends denied being the driver. The case …
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Digital PopulismJust as we were recording this podcast, the hashtag #daruratdemokrasi (democratic emergency) went viral across Indonesian social media. The alert was prompted by the latest example of Indonesia’s parliament (DPR) attempting to override or block a ruling by the Constitutional Court related to the eligibility of candidates to run in r…
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FORENSICS: Fingerprinting the human voice
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Remember when the internet erupted over whether a viral audio clip was depicting the name ‘Yanny’ or ‘Laurel’? Or did you know over 20% of people are convinced ABBA is singing ‘see that girl, watch her scream, kicking the dancing queen, instead of the actual lyrics ‘see that girl, watch that scene, dig in the dancing in queen’? These playful debate…
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DETECTIVES: The Elisabeth Membrey Case
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Just before midnight on the 6th of December 1994, Elisabeth Membrey arrived home from her shift at the Manhattan Hotel in Melbourne. Police estimated that by 3AM, she was dead, concluding she’d been murdered in her hallway. 16 years later, in 2010, after a tireless investigation, former Detective Tim Peck was able to finally make an arrest. But, as…
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FORENSICS: The Dozier School for Boys
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White crosses on unmarked graves, rusted metal bunk beds and ivy-lined concrete halls - that's all that's left of the Dozier School For Boys. From 1900 to 2011, It was one of the largest juvenile reform institutions in the US. It operated under the guise of 'reforming' wayward boys, but when victim-survivors and families came forth with allegations…
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In the late 90s - NSW was rocked by the disappearance of Kerry Whelan. She was last seen on May 6th, after being dropped off at the Park Royal Hotel in Parramatta. When she didn’t return home, her husband Bernie quickly notified police. A search uncovered nothing, and police were stumped. It wasn’t until a day later did they have a lead. A ransom n…
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Rebecca Meckelburg - Farming Indonesia
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One of the signature campaign promises of the Prabowo Subianto presidency is free lunches and milk for Indonesian school kids. This plan is linked to a much wider set of reforms to the way Indonesia’s produces and organises its agriculture sector, including the modernization of agriculture and converting land to plantations. The details are still p…
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FORENSICS: How children are radicalised
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How do young people become radicalised? Is it nature or nurture? Or something far more complex? Dr John Kasinathan is a forensic psychiatrist who specializes in the treatment of children and adolescents. In this episode, hear about the science of the developing brain, what drives crime in young people, the realities of being an incarcerated child i…
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DETECTIVES: The Potential Burial Site of the Beaumont Children
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A dig was completed, but some are saying they didn't dig far enough. On the 26th of January 1966, three young siblings known as the Beaumont children, caught the bus to Glenelg Beach in Adelaide. They told their mother they'd be back by noon - but the children never returned. 22 years later, detective Bill Hayes took on the case, and to this day, h…
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Taufiq Rahman - Vinyl Revival In Indonesia
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The Indonesian music scene is currently experiencing a vibrant period of experimentation, where musicians are blending vernacular Indonesian music traditions with elements from diverse global influences and historical periods. This fusion has led to the emergence of groundbreaking acts like Senyawa, who have successfully captured international atte…
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On the 6th May, 2006, a 45-year-old woman disappeared from California’s San Pablo. Two years later, her skull was discovered 6 kilometers away. Forensic anthropologist Ryburn Dobbs uncovered evidence that could have cracked the case wide open. But the police ignored him. Why? In this episode, Ryburn tells host Kathryn Fox about the frustration of d…
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DETECTIVES: The Melbourne Tobacco Wars
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Fire-bombings across suburban Melbourne have been terrorising citizens for the last 18 months. But why are they happening? And what can police do to counter act them? Former AFP Officer Rohan Pike joins host Brent Sanders to explain how high taxes and opportunistic criminals are leading to catastrophic levels of illegal tobacco being siphoned throu…
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Have you ever been scammed? Chances are you or someone you know has. From fraudulent texts to crypto cons, this type of crime has permeated every aspect of our lives. But who’s pulling the strings, and where does the money go? In this episode, forensic financial investigator and former ASIC adviser, Niall Coburn, lifts the lid on financial crime. L…
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DETECTIVES: Infiltrating the Russian Secret Service
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How does an FBI agent convince a Russian spy to defect? What are the tactics that work, and what are the ones that could get you killed? For decades, the world was paralysed by The Cold War. But, after the cooling of nuclear operations in the US and Russia, governments seemed ready to ease tensions and find a truce. Beneath the surface though, in t…
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Imagine being locked in a police interrogation room for 48 hours straight - you haven't eaten, barely slept, your anxiety levels are at an all-time high, and you’re being intensely questioned about a crime that you haven’t committed. You’re innocent, so the truth will come out, right? In Australia, it’s estimated that up to a third of wrongful conv…
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DETECTIVES: How the town of Wee Waa solved a cold case
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On New Years Eve, 1998, in the small town of Wee Waa, a 91 year old woman was horrifically attacked. Incredibly, she survived, and quickly notified police of the attack. But, after months of case work without any leads, the case went cold… Two years later, then detective Robin Napper was asked to investigate. He arrived in the town of just 1,900 pe…
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Antje Missbach - Refugees Growing Up in Limbo
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Antje Missbach - Refugees growing up in limboIndonesia is currently home to over 13,000 refugees and asylum seekers, a majority of them young people who are stuck in limbo waiting for their futures to be determined. For most, it takes years, sometimes more than a decade, for resettlement to become an option. In the meantime, for those who arrive in…
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FORENSICS: Sydney's meth house machete murder
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Businessman Paul Nguyen left Sydney’s Hilton Hotel in May 2014 and was never seen alive again. A police investigation uncovered secrets that exposed Mr Nguyen’s murky underworld connections, leading authorities to a makeshift grave around an hour’s drive, south of Sydney. The excavation and identification of Mr Nguyen’s remains was forensic anthrop…
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On the 26th of June, 2006, police were notified that a young girl had gone missing in Perth. Moments later, her body was found, and an expansive crime scene was established. With an unknown, and clearly dangerous offender on the run, police were working against the clock to preserve crucial evidence, and find who was responsible. Then detective Pau…
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Howie Manns and Jessica Kruk - Indonesian language instruction
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Teaching Indonesian as a second language comes with challenges. In Australia, there is a wide gulf between the government's rhetoric about the importance of learning Indonesian and the realities faced by teachers on the ground. In the absence of centralised resources, Indonesian teachers often have to work creatively to devise their own materials a…
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FORENSICS: Don Hancock & The Gypsy Joker Bikies
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Bikies live in a world where loyalty is fierce and silence is golden. So, when a member of the Gypsy Jokers was killed in outback Western Australia, a deadly game of cat and mouse began. The Gypsy Jokers were convinced the culprit was Don Hancock, a former Police Chief with a colourful past. And, as the investigation heated up, the stakes became de…
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After coercing farmers to plant marijuana crops in their fields, organised crime figures laid the seed for a dominant and violent drug empire across the Victorian borders. But, when police raided the farms, it was the growers who faced the consequences, as mob members threatened them and their families to stay quiet. Former Victoria Police detectiv…
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The body of 27-year-old mother of two, Samantha Bodsworth, was found in Noosa, surrounded by wattle trees. The killer thinks it’s the perfect crime, but what they underestimated was the power of the tiny, silent witnesses clinging to almost everything they touched – pollen. In this episode, Dr Lynne Milne, the scientist at the forefront of forensic…
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DETECTIVES: Exposing Jimmy Savile, with Mark Williams-Thomas
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For decades he was an adored media personality. But, after an iTV documentary exposed him as a sex offender, Jimmy Savile's story turned sinister, and questions were soon asked about the people who enabled his behaviour despite rumours and innuendo. For many of the children and young people Jimmy Savile offended against, they were finally heard - b…
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FORENSICS: How language exposes criminals
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Every word leaves a trace. A disgruntled employee's late-night Facebook rant, cryptic messages, riddled with emojis, arranging a drug deal, a threatening letter from a scorned ex. These are more than words to forensic linguist, Professor Georgina Heydon. They’re crucial clues that can act like a phonetic fingerprint, revealing the identity of the c…
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DETECTIVES: Raiding the house of The Claremont Killer, with Todd Bowler
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As a door was bashed in, and a very ordinary seeming man was put in cuffs, the heinous crimes of the Claremont Serial Killer were finally brought to light. Todd Bowler, who spoke exclusively with Crime Insiders, is a former WA Tactical Group member has been on the other side of these investigations for several years, and during his career, was a le…
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Bivitri Susanti - Dirty VoteThe frenzied final weeks of campaigning leading up to the presidential election on 14 February 2024 were packed with promises, symbols, celebrity and cash. When the dance literally stopped a few days before the polls opened, in the traditional cooling off period, a documentary film, Dirty Vote, dropped on YouTube. The wo…
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FORENSICS: The wrongful conviction of Henry Keogh
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For 20 years, Henry Keogh was imprisoned for a crime he didn't commit. What was a tragic accident turned into a full-blown murder trial, fueled by dubious evidence from now-discredited forensic pathologist, Dr. Colin Manock. In this episode, host Kathryn Fox talks with Forensic Photographer, Professor Gale Spring, one of the key experts who helped …
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DETECTIVES: The Auckland Plumbing Murder
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After finding a fragment of a skull several metres within a toilet plumbing system, police knew they were dealing with something sinister. Mike Bush is a former commissioner of the New Zealand Police Force and has had a decorated career. However, his time as a Detective and a lead investigator saw him take on some gruesome and confronting cases - a…
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John Cheong-Holdaway, Eka Poedijono and Jocelyn Tribe - Gamelan Music
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In November 2023, a unique event occured. Eight gamelan groups - Gamelan DanAnda, Kacapi Suling Melbourne, Mahindra Bali Gamelan, Melbourne Community Gamelan, Mugi Rahayu, Putra Panji Asmara, Talo Balak, Selonding Sapta Nugraha - came together to perform at a small church in Northcote, a suburb in North Melbourne.The gathering was dedicated to the …
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FORENSICS: The small clues that exposed a killer
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A blood-stained cloth was the only evidence police had to work with when Marlene Maria Smith didn't turn up to work in August, 2000. This small clue would soon become part of the huge web of forensic evidence, ultimately leading to the conviction of a killer. Peter Baines OAM spent over two decades as a specialist forensic crime scene investigator …
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A man described as "pure evil", understand how police investigated his heinous crimes, caught him in and the process of holding him in prison whilst seeking a confession. Decorated former Victorian Police Detective Adrian Paterson joins host Brent Sanders to unpack his career, and go deep into how he helped catch some of Australia's most high-profi…
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FORENSICS: The 'accidental' drowning that was actually a homicide
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Drowning is the third-highest cause of death around the world, yet underwater recovery and aquatic forensic investigation remain heavily underresourced and underresearched. Forensic investigator and scientific diver, Sarah Mormino, is on a mission to change this. In this episode, host Kathryn Fox and Sarah unravel the fascinating and often perilous…
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DETECTIVES: The Hoddle Street Massacre
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A tragedy that rocked Melbourne in the late 80s, and one that left the nation questioning its own attitude towards guns and violence. Former Commissioner of Victoria Police Kel Glare was just a few months away from getting the top job when an armed gunman killed seven and injured 19 people in Melbourne's inner North. It's a case that stood out to K…
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FORENSICS: The flawed 'science' putting parents behind bars
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Heartbreaking was the only word that could be used to describe the death of a 10-month-old baby in Perth. What was less clear cut is the question that was posed to the judge - was the baby boy’s death an accident, or was he murdered by his father? Judith Fordham has been lauded as one of Western Australia’s most high-profile criminal lawyers, but h…
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Anto Mohsin - Electrifying Indonesia
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The talk on the street is all about electric cars and scooters as Indonesia strives to become a regional centre for manufacturing electric vehicles. At the heart of that goal is constructing a national supply chain of locally built battery hubs to drive the transition to electric.But as my current guest reminds us, harnessing electricity has always…
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DETECTIVES: The Mallacoota Stand Off
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What happens when back up is three hours away, and you're faced with a violent and desperate situation? Mark Tregellas is one of Victoria's most experienced regional police officers. He's spent decades tackling violent and intense criminal situations, ones that are unique to that of Australia's wild and often unpredictable regional areas. Join host…
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FORENSICS: Semen, drunk flies, and crime scenes
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Semen is the crack cocaine of the fly world, and while maggots love a corpse, flies feast on live human flesh and fluids. So, could a fly frame you for murder? And how do police differentiate fly 'artifacts' from human biological material at a crime scene? These are all things forensic biologist, Dr Annalisa Durdle has studied. Join host Kathryn Fo…
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DETECTIVES: How Drugs Are Smuggled into Australia
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The AFP and customs intercept hundreds of tonnes of narcotics every year. But, the techniques of criminals and smugglers are becoming more complex, and unfortunately, more effective. Nigel Phair is a former Australian Federal Police Officer who took on a range of high profile drug importation cases. This saw him intercepting large quantities of dru…
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It took 37 years, a failed murder trial, and an Australian mathematician to finally prosecute one of Scotland's most infamous serial killers. Professor David Balding is a pioneer in the field of mathematical computational genetics. Join host Kathryn Fox and hear how using things like probability, David can calculate the likelihood of DNA belonging …
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DETECTIVES: How Undercover Cops Infiltrate Gangs
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The gangs of New Zealand are like nothing else, and as an undercover cop, you're forced to prove yourself, demonstrate you're a criminal and show you're capable of committing violent and often dangerous crimes. That was the life of undercover operative Mark Van Lee Warden, who spent years as a covert officer deep inside the underworld of the New Ze…
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FORENSICS: The story of Alice Ruggles
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Victims of stalking are systematically let down. So, how do the police handle reports of stalking? And what does the research tell us about effective intervention? 24-year-old Alice Ruggles was stalked and murdered by her ex-boyfriend. Alice did all the recommended things, including reporting his dangerous behaviour to the police multiple times. Un…
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The consequences of online abuse can be fatal, and in the early 2000s, even experts were naive to the dangers of the online world for us, and our kids. Yasmin London is a former NSW Police Officer who took on a diverse set of roles in her decade in the force. She tackled the everyday stress of general duties, the diverse crimes of Rosebay in Sydney…
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FORENSICS: The psychology of stalking
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Stalking is disturbingly common, yet often misunderstood by wider society. Professor Troy McEwan from the Swinburne University of Technology is a forensic psychologist specialising in understanding, assessing, and treating stalking behaviour. In this episode with Kathryn Fox, hear about the 5 different types of stalkers, and gain insights into thei…
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Once an admired figure in NSW police, the now disgraced Roger Rogerson left a trail of corruption and death as he moved his way through the force. Former NSW Detective Deborah Locke was at the centre of Rogerson's grip on the police, and faced horrific consequences for standing up to him and his corruption. Deb sat down with host Brent Sanders, and…
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Kathryn Robinson - Marriage Migration and Intercultural Families
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There are many things that drive migration to other countries, and one of them is romantic relationships and marriages. But Asian women who are developing relationships with men from Western countries, like Australia, be it through snail mails, online sites or other means, often have to face the stereotype of the ‘subservient woman’. This stereotyp…
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FORENSICS: The stories tattoos tell in criminal investigations
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Even when removed or burnt, forensic experts can use tattoos to identify offenders and victims of crimes. This is one of many techniques forensic photographers like Karen Byrne use to document everything from crime scenes to autopsies. Hear about the surprising ways evidence can be captured, the emotional weight of the job, and how forensic photogr…
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Indonesia has one of the highest smoking rates in the world - approximately two thirds of Indonesian men are classified as smokers. This is in spite of anti-smoking discourses and tobacco control policies becoming more and more prominent across the globe, at least in many middle and high-income countries.In this episode of Talking Indonesia Elisabe…
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DETECTIVES: Queensland's Child Protection Unit
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One of the country's most effective crime fighting arms, Queensland Police have some of the world's most dedicated officers. Their experience in fighting online child sexual abuse is second to none, and James Maskey was part of that team. Join host Brent Sanders as he unpacks James' career. From General Duties, to the CPOL team, hear about the case…
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