Leveraging Software in Business.

Mission Control Podcast

In this episode, Mike sits down to have a discussion with Stephen Spence, the Managing Director at Project Map It. Stephen explains the utility of their software and how contractors can use it to increase sales. A point is made that many contractors often pay for software like CRMS and only scratch the surface of what they're capable of. As your business grows, it's essential to set yourself up for future success; unaddressed issues can compound and leave you with significant headaches later down the road.

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Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (00:03.613) So we're live, dude. How are you?

steve spence (00:05.134) I- it looked like I saw the countdown. I'm good, man. How are you?

Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (00:08.817) I'm doing well. I'm happy to have you today. Yeah, we all fucking better be. Welcome back to another episode of the Mission Control podcast. It's your boy Mike Stearns with the San Diego agency. We've got a special guest, Mr. Steven Spence with Project MAPIT. If y'all don't know, you're gonna find out today. You're gonna learn today. Shout out to the team at Roofer. They helped bring the show to life. If you need clean and pristine proposals, roof measurements, instant roof quotes.

steve spence (00:11.854) I'm happy to be here.

Ha ha

Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (00:39.045) a CRM that'll actually work for your company. Hit up the team at Rufr, link down in the description. Y'all know what to do, just do it. Tell them I sent ya.

Alright, so it's Friday. We're almost in 2024. How was 2023 for you?

steve spence (00:57.006) 2023 was good. I'm sorry, I'm fighting this cold, so I probably don't sound as sexy as I normally do. But 2023 was good. 2023 was good for the company, was good for my personal life. So I cannot complain and I will not complain.

Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (01:03.517) You sound great.

Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (01:12.016) Okay. What is Project MAP-IT?

steve spence (01:14.758) We're digital mapping portfolios. So imagine a map with a bunch of pins of all your past installs on a map. It's interactive. So it becomes a really good social proof tool, credibility tool, if you will. On each pin, you can load project photos of the jobs you've done. You can display all your Google, Facebook. We are our own review platform as well. So you can display reviews. So essentially social proof, right? Homeowners are looking for three things. Are you reputable in our area? Yep. Look at all the pins around your house that...

we've done installs for. Do you have good reviews? Yep. Click a button on our map, there are reviews. Do you have some pictures of the work you've done? Yep. Oh, what color shingle are you looking for? More A Black? Okay. You click a button that says More A Black and the map will change to only include those products. So that's what we are in a nutshell.

Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (01:59.753) Mm-hmm, okay. So why wouldn't I just take like a picture of like Photoshop pins and you know, not pay project map it.

steve spence (02:10.09) Yeah, so homeowners, especially nowadays, right? We're dealing with digital natives, right? 50% of the home improvement projects are now being asked to be done by millennials, people that grew up with phones and devices in their hands, right? You know this, Mike, right? So what can you do? They know what a Photoshop-looking photo looks like.

All right, and I've actually been on some inspections with some contractors myself, where they used Project Mappin. And for example, one scenario, husband and wife, they were trying to decide between a pewter and a charcoal black roof. They were able to pull up some pewter roofs with jobs that they did.

Very authentic looking pictures. It doesn't look like your classic, you know Google photo that you would find on Google images They were able to find some charcoal black photos and out of the out of the wife's mouth was this is why I love this Software I can see that pewter is the color I want because I'd rather see it on a house Than on the shingle board and she pointed outside where the shingle board was laying

Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (03:12.777) Hmm. Okay. So I'm a contractor. I wanna build more trust and credibility with my target market. So I install this thing on my website and now people can click and they can see projects that we've done. They can filter it by shingle color or manufacturer, whatever their needs are, right? Is that accurate? Okay. So now you've got this thing on the website.

steve spence (03:14.919) Ahem.

steve spence (03:18.37) Yep.

steve spence (03:35.35) Yep, that is accurate.

Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (03:40.985) Is there more value than it just sitting on the website and hoping that people see it and engage with it?

steve spence (03:46.642) I feel like you understand our product pretty well because of that lead in question you just asked. We actually pride ourselves with three things, but two things we really pride ourselves on. And the very first thing is something that's not just the website. It's a sales tool. People like Rufr, we're partnered with Rufr and some other proposal platforms out there. We're partnered and really in deep with Engage. That team at Engage is awesome. So we are a sales tool. We will help.

a homeowner realize that you're the right contractor for the job because of our social proof deck that we have, our map. Sorry, you'll have to edit that out. But...

to answer your question, sales tool, that's what we are. I mean, that's what we're bred, that's what we're made for. So add it to your Engage Deck, your Prezi, your PowerPoint presentation, your proposals that you're using at the in-home sales appointment. Literally, when you open up the map and you click a button, it dives in to where that homeowner lives and they see pins around it. That wow factor, that credibility factor helps close deals just alone, just by showing the pins around that house.

Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (04:55.385) Yeah, that's really cool and I could definitely see how that would help if I'm a consumer and I'm getting pitched by a service based company. I could understand how that would certainly make me trust that person more and feel more comfortable working with that company. My concern is, in the spirit of transparency,

As contractors, there's so much cool tech out there. So many things that, hey, if you do this and then you do ABCD once you install it, like this thing will help you immensely. And what I find is that a lot of the times, you know, they purchase a technology and then they don't do the things necessary to get the intended benefit or the maximum capability out of it. Do you see?

Contractors struggle with the implementation of it on the sales side to where they're curating each pitch Maybe they've got a decker or a slideshow or they're using engage like in my mind if I own a service a home service company what I would do is like I would have my standard deck and then

I would make sure that before I go on every call that I modify a screenshot on one part of the deck where it shows that customer's neighborhood and all the pins that are, you know, around that neighborhood to help build the credibility. Do you see contractors doing that? And if so, like how do you guys help train them set the expectation of what they can do to best leverage that technology to convert more people into sales?

steve spence (06:20.446) Yeah, you bring up a really good point, right? In any software, and I know that you work hard on processes with your contractors and building in the right processes, you need to add it to your process. And we tell that on the sales call when we're doing a demo for a contractor that's considering using Project MAPIT. My favorite stat that I say during my presentations when I present about social proof is just 80% of the usage of software is done by 20% of the users. So that means 80%

potentially 80% of the Project MAP-IT users out there aren't leveraging us the way they could. So we've actually, funny enough, about two months ago have changed the way we train our customers. We've become more consultant-like in how to leverage Project MAP-IT unless, hey, this is how you add a photo, this is how you add a pin. Because honestly, they can do that on their own. So we've built out some digital training modules that I'd say has cut down about 60, 70% of our onboarding process.

because we've built out videos that are pretty simple to follow. We're not a tough system, right? We're not a robust CRM system. We're like adding pins, adding photos, syncing your Google reviews once, and then it does it for you. It updates your map with new Google reviews down the road. So we're not hard. So we've changed, we've shifted the way we've trained our contractors in that they look through these training modules. We'll always train them how to add a pin and stuff. That's always been there, it always will be there, but.

We've shifted from training them how to update Project MAP-IT to how to leverage Project MAP-IT. So for example, we set them, we have five steps. It's how to add pins, how to add reviews, how to add photos, how to add this to your sales process. We have a video on how to add it to your iPad and how to navigate it on a tablet. So they go through those themselves. And then when we get on a strategy session, we talk about how to leverage it.

and the three pillars that we really talk about are the three processes at the sales point are pre-appointment email that goes out, right? So you could build a map. People are always like, I can't update my map. It's gonna take forever. Update your map once. Some people literally update their map once, have a ton of pictures, ton of reviews, and they don't really even update it except for maybe once a year. Put it in that pre-appointment email. I ask people all the time, Mike, and you probably ask people, what's in your pre-appointment email? And what do you think they always say?

steve spence (08:46.334) That's a question for you. I'm putting you on the spot. They, you know a lot. So they say, oh well, our pre-appointment email is pretty simple. It just says when, who the sales rep is, when they're coming out. If you have any questions, call us. I'm like, well, have you considered doing two things? One doesn't have anything to do with our product, but we always recommend when we consult with our contractors that are leveraging Project MAPID. In that pre-appointment email, get a video of your sales rep.

Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (08:48.169) I don't know, bro. I know nothing.

steve spence (09:13.514) Right? Like have them introduce themselves so that they know who that sales rep is before they even knock on the door. I was at a recent event with CertainTeed and one of the guys said, yeah, get them to know you before they get to know you.

Exactly, like pretty simple, right? I've talked to people that are like, I'm not putting my sales rep in front of a video. They will not do a good job. OK, well then have your owner do a video that's kind of standard for everybody. This is what South Shore Exteriors is, and this is the process that you're going to see when we come out. But the second part of that pre-appointment email is put a link to your portfolio. Like people want to see that you're doing work in their area.

Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (09:53.765) Yeah. I think.

steve spence (09:55.61) I saw you smirk. I saw you smirk when I said, uh, video. Talk to me.

Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (10:00.797) Yeah, so our second core value at Ascendant Solutions is not excuses. So like we can make every excuse as to why we don't want to do this, why we can't have a sales rep on camera. But there's like there's always a way to accomplish making your process better, building that rapport with your customer better and like not only even in business, just in your personal life as well. It's much easier to find reasons why you can't do it. I find like through observation of myself.

you know, historically and those people around me that a lot of the times you were talking about, you know, training the contractors and this is what you got to do, this is what you got to do. A lot of the times people that aren't successful in their own mind and whatever that means to you, right, I'm not going from my subjective interpretation of success for you, whatever you deem to be successful, a lot of people don't get to that milestone that is success as defined by themselves. And it's not because

they don't know what to do. It's because they won't do the shit necessary in order to get there, right? So like, how do we bridge that gap? Because as contractors, they're super busy, right? There's a lot of shit going on, like, and a lot of their attention's getting pulled in so many different directions. So like, how does this become a priority to make sure, even if it's being onboarded and set up once, how do we make that a priority so that they're getting maximum benefit?

steve spence (10:59.982) correct.

steve spence (11:21.85) I agree, 100%. And honestly, we're starting to grow. You were asking how 2023 was. 2024, I feel like we could probably double in size with our customer base. We've got a lot of good things cooking for us. And so for me, I'm growing. And one of the things we always talk about, and it's the same stat, 80% of the usage is done by 20% of the users. We're starting to grow, and I have a CRM. We use what's called HubSpot. And literally, I've put in over the last two months knowing that this growth phase is about to hit us.

we've been putting in a lot of automations that I didn't realize HubSpot did. So I would always recommend anybody you asked about technology, anybody that's using technology, you probably are already using technology that will do some of the stuff you want. So dig a little deeper with the customer team, customer success team of that technology, whether that's a CRM or a company cam or whatever tool you're using and learn how to use it better.

Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (12:15.205) Yeah, that's a really good point. I come across it all the time, whether it's, you know, let's just go with CRM, because that's what we're talking about. There's so many companies, like even young companies that are paying for something like Acculink, like Acculink is, it's a good CRM. It's more expensive than some of the alternatives. So like if you're going to

You know, not by the base model that'll you know, the car that'll get you from point A to point B because you want all the extra cool features and bells and whistles, but you're never going to use them like what's the point. Right. And that's not saying that's, you know, that's not necessarily saying get away from what CRM you're using. But to your point.

steve spence (12:45.428) Yeah.

Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (12:51.473) Figure out what it's capable of and then actually get yourself and your team on board with adopting that technology and using it the best you can to minimize friction within your processes to minimize the likelihood of human error. Because as you know if you're a two million dollar company and you're going to go to six million next year or the year after these small problems become disproportionately more of a headache as you grow right. I've witnessed this firsthand.

steve spence (13:16.054) bigger problems. Yeah, correct.

Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (13:20.281) So we can get ahead of that. And like you said, you're anticipating growth, so you're starting to leverage these automations that you didn't know exist. If we can be proactive to digging into these things, it's gonna make your life and your team's life a lot easier when that growth is actualized, right?

steve spence (13:36.834) could not agree 100% more. That is well said.

Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (13:43.137) You know, I'm not necessarily a creative person. My team is super creative and they're fantastic.

steve spence (13:48.311) Yeah.

Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (13:50.493) But like as we're sitting here having this conversation, like I started thinking, okay, I'm a marketing and advertising guy, although we don't do Facebook, I started thinking about like Facebook ads. And maybe there's like a drone, like a drone shoot, like going around a house that then zooms in to like the install taking place. And then it jump cuts over to like project map it at like a 30,000 foot overview. And then you click into that neighborhood that you're targeting and it zooms in and shows all the pins on the map. And then it zooms back out and shows continued production.

steve spence (14:18.359) Hehehe

Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (14:20.447) of the job, right? And it's like, I think that would be really cool because you can create 10 different ad sets in 10 different neighborhoods that you want to have a strong presence in or that you do and you want to perpetuate. And you could run ads like that, that I think would be really engaging.

steve spence (14:35.694) I can't wait to see a couple of your ads that you're going to build out that are exactly you just. No you said you said ads I thought you were talking about like don't you do Google ads and stuff. Yeah the media I know.

Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (14:38.905) I ain't fucking doing it, bro. You gotta hit up like Matt Smith or something. I ain't touching Facebook. Facebook is such a-

Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (14:48.609) Yeah, we do Google ads and stuff, but like, you know, Facebook is going to be more like media related ads, you know, to where you can leverage like that type of cool concept. And I think really make a meaningful impact from

steve spence (14:59.138) I'm gonna have to tell my boy Jordan Harrison to do one of those for one of our clients that we share.

Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (15:04.989) J-dubs get it done, baby. And I'll tell you what when you see the return on it All I ask is for a little bit of credit. All right

steve spence (15:14.142) Well, you did bring up another good point in just the idea of drone photography and technology. People are using them now more and more for roof measurements, but also more for marketing purposes. And there's nothing like on Project MAPIT, the best roofing before and after is with a drone, right? The same angle.

before followed by a same angle after photo. I always got to give credit to Joe Ailer over at Tariel Construction Group. They're out of Maryland, Harford County, Maryland. If anybody's watching this and they want to see what good marketing is, Joe was using drones before drones were even a thing. He hired a guy full-time about five years ago. So drone photography is pretty legit. I love it, especially in the exterior remodeling.

Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (15:54.886) Mm.

Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (15:58.193) Nice. Yeah, I mean, I'll say I have customers that use Project MAPIT. They enjoy it. It's definitely worth checking out and having a conversation, figuring out like what how you can take that technology implemented into what you've got going on to strengthen, you know, the different aspects of your business that it can that it can do so. So what questions you got for me, sir? You got anything for me?

steve spence (16:10.623) Yeah.

steve spence (16:23.126) I'm a little disappointed that I didn't have you stopped doing the dad jokes. Is that what's going on?

Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (16:27.301) No, you know, we just, dude, we're just taking a break. It's not goodbye, it's see you later, okay? So we had some technical difficulties with the new studio set up this morning, which caused me to be a little bit behind schedule. And you know, and if you come for just the dad jokes and I failed you, accountability is our first core value here, I'm sorry, I will own that shit. This is your formal apology, and I'll be better next time.

steve spence (16:31.399) Alright. Okay.

steve spence (16:41.388) Yep.

steve spence (16:48.467) Ha ha

steve spence (16:54.026) I want to know from you how you're doing over at Ascent in your personal life. How are things going?

Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (16:58.825) Dude, things are great, man. We're growing. Customers are happy. Team seems happy. I don't know if they tell me if they weren't. I've got Christian. Christian gave me a thumbs up, so he's happy. And he's the only one within an earshot right now. So we're one for one, baby. Had a baby boy about five weeks, four and a half weeks ago. Little Everett Michael. He's a little champ. Very active hand, so I'm excited to see maybe if he gets into boxing or something like that. And.

steve spence (17:03.297) Yep.

steve spence (17:06.845) Yep.

steve spence (17:24.214) Boxing.

some hoops.

Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (17:28.098) I won't influence his decision making. I'll just be there to support him.

steve spence (17:34.519) I have a ninth grader and he's a lacrosse kid. I grew up playing lacrosse, but he's also a really good swimmer. So I try hard honestly not to influence because I'm his coach as well and that's always not a great mix.

Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (17:46.674) Yeah, I am fun fact the least efficient swimmer you'll ever meet. I would say, I don't know, 80% of the time I forget to kick my feet. So it's like, you know, I swim a half a lap and my shoulders are smoked because my upper body is doing all the work and I don't understand why. You know, I'm just not intentional, I guess. You got to be more deliberate. Kick your damn feet, Mike. Okay.

steve spence (17:49.848) Yep.

steve spence (18:06.551) Yeah.

steve spence (18:11.427) I'm a short dude, so short legs, short arms. I do not swim well. I have two swimmers in my family. My daughter, she just got upgraded to juniors, which is pretty legit. She's doing really well and she works her butt off. So yeah, swimming's not for me, but I am now a swim dad. So I go to my son's Friday swim meets, which are long. Do you know, have you ever been to a swim meet? It's like a fricking, it's the worst thing ever.

Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (18:22.888) guys.

Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (18:33.681) No. I've been to gymnastics meets, which I'd imagine are...

steve spence (18:36.766) Yeah, it's the same concept, right? You're like watching your kids for two minutes total out of like three and a half hours of sitting there. I mean, cheering on the team, I'm getting used to it, but that's been fun. I do have one question for you, and it's selfishly for me. You know, as we grow, I'm hiring new people. We just hired two new people for the company. I anticipate that growth to continue probably.

Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (18:44.299) Very similar. Sure.

Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (18:51.475) Shoot.

steve spence (19:02.434) February, March, April, maybe we'll have to hire a couple more. What kind of things do you do with your team since your team does love you and loves working together? Can you give me like one or two things that you do that you think helps your team be inspired and get along well?

Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (19:20.538) Yeah.

Here's the thing I claim not to be. I don't claim to be a guru on this stuff. I have what I think is right. And I try to follow that. And I try to remember it wasn't too long ago when I worked for someone else. And in life, a lot of the times, it hasn't been like, I know the answer. It's I know what I don't want to happen. And like in my previous employment history, things that I didn't like and what it resulted in. So like, that's kind of the lens that I look through. Not saying it's right, but it's what I do. So since you asked, here you go. We did a nice dinner.

steve spence (19:25.998) It's fair.

steve spence (19:29.538) Yep.

steve spence (19:37.559) Yep.

Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (19:53.035) you know, for like a holiday party with some recognition. I wrote Christmas cards. We all had, again, I think a great time. I enjoyed myself. I hope they did too. We had a we had a sales goal this year.

Which is tough for them because they don't directly impact it per se because they're not having the sales calls. But like it's really important because every piece of my team that is fulfilling different aspects of customer needs have a massive impact. And I've, I tried to, and I should do a better job of consistently reminding them that like the only reason that these sales happen are because of the work that you do. So that's my takeaway from this meeting. Thank you. Um, we're doing a retreat in Tampa. Um,

steve spence (20:27.83) Right? Yep.

Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (20:33.897) we're gonna do like a little bit of planning for 2024. And maybe that's like a few hours that we're gonna do out of like a three day trip. And then the rest of the time, we're just gonna do some fun activities that's coming up in February because we hit our sales target. Yeah, and I think they don't know this yet. And...

Hopefully they can't hear me. I wanna do something called Teach It Tuesdays, where we just have a morning meeting and everybody comes to the table with something they can teach the team. And it can be something with regards to their job, their position, something that they've learned or something that they think would be helpful to the team. It could be something that they wanna teach the team about themselves, a book that they read, whatever it is, like just come and bring something to the table to talk about that it has meaning to you. Because I think that...

steve spence (21:09.399) Thank you.

Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (21:21.093) The better we understand each other, the more we know about each other, the easier it is to relate, be compassionate, and be unified as just one cohesive unit. So we're going to start that in 2024.

steve spence (21:33.13) I love that idea. I think I'm going to steal it. I think that's a great idea. We meet once a week, but I like the idea of engaging your employees in that respect. It definitely shows empathy, trust, all that stuff. Speaking of trust, I heard Eric Obram talked about the team model. I loved it. So if anybody wants it, I don't know if you know it, but it was, it really was an aha moment. Kind of like your teach a Tuesday thing was an aha moment for him. So appreciate you sharing that.

Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (22:00.137) Appreciate you listening, man. If you wanna steal it, steal it, it's fine. Tell them what was your idea. I do it all the time. No, no, you don't do that, you don't do that. Always a pleasure, dude. I look forward to more of these meetings. Next time I do have one request. In light of you being a swim dad, I want you to narrow from the neck up and I want you to wear a swim cap.

steve spence (22:01.631) Yeah man, for sure.

steve spence (22:06.254) Okay. I'm gonna tell them it was your idea.

steve spence (22:14.786) Yeah, man.

steve spence (22:20.034) Yep.

steve spence (22:29.502) a swim cap. Yeah, I can do that. I mean, it'll go on pretty easy. I don't have much hair. So

Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (22:32.553) Sweet.

Alright, dude, just make sure that you're 100% hairless from the knockup with a swim cap so it can be appropriate and we'll go from there. It'll be great. Oh, yeah, absolutely. It's gonna be great. Alright, maybe I'll throw a swim cap on too.

steve spence (22:43.17) Do I wear it for the whole interview? Okay, deal. Done deal. I love it.

steve spence (22:53.518) Good man.

Stephen Spence and Mike Stearns (22:53.721) Um, yeah, dude, I appreciate you. I appreciate all you that tuned in today. Thank you to Rufor for helping make the show possible and we gone.

steve spence (23:02.146) Thanks, brother.