How consumer neuroscience & mBIT is Taking Care Of Business #6


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consumer neuroscience

consumer neuroscience

Consumer Neuroscience

Taking care of business with mBraining and Consumer Neuroscience is what we are doing in this episode of the mBraining Show.

Instead of being a host, today I am being interviewed as a guest on RPP FM in Mornington Victoria, Australia with Host Jacki Mitchel from

During the interview I share the microphone with Associate Professor – Dr Joseph Ciorciari Director, Brain and Psychological Sciences Research Centre


00:19 Introduction
03:42 Neuro marketing
05:28 Psychophysiology
08:29 Neurofeedback research
16:01 How to improve emotional intelligence
21:30 Left and right side of the brain
25:13 Bill Gasiamis
29:10 Neuroplasticity
35:57 The best thing that eve ry happened
38:08 Multiple Brain Integration Techniques


Intro 0:04
You’re listening to The mBraining Show, a show about the new field of mBIT, where you’ll get a blend of neuroscience based research with practical applications for wise living. And now, here’s your host, Bill Gasiamis.

Bill 0:19
G’day everyone, and it’s lovely to have you here listening to another episode of The mBraining Show. I am your host Bill Gasiamis. But today, I will be swapping roles and instead of hosting, I am the one involved in a podcast being interviewed. Today’s host is Jackie Mitchell from brainstorm marketing, and the host of taking care of business.

Bill 0:41
A program that is recorded live in the studio at RPP FM Mornington and is one of the few dedicated radio business programs that focuses on all businesses great and small. Jackie Mitchell is an international award winning brand, marketing, and business strategist with a diverse track record that has enabled her to draw on a wide variety of experiences across a number of industries.

Bill 0:56
Jackie has worked with many leading Australian organizations such as Toyota, Australia Post, QIC properties, shopping centers, spotless services, city power, and Tennis Australia to name a few. Currently, Jackie has a business interest in tourism, specifically Lemoncello Holiday House in Sorento and in construction.

Bill 1:37
But primarily focuses her attention on her company Brainstorm Marketing. Sharing the microphone with me is Associate Professor Joseph Ciorciari who is a director of Brain and Psychological Sciences Research Center, Swinburne University, Melbourne, Australia. Now this episode of The Ciorciari show is brought to you by, one of the world’s leading mBIT coach certification providers. Now sit back and relax and enjoy the show.

Jackie 2:14
Hello, and welcome to another New Taking Care of Business live in this studio. I’m Jackie Mitchell, great you could join us today as we discuss the most fascinating area of business or in my opinion, it is its consumer neuroscience.

Jackie 2:28
The application of neuroscience psychology psychophysiology to marketing is now the norm not the exception. So today we dive in headfirst to understand this area further with Australia’s leaders in the field a really exciting show today. It’s being planned for quite a long time and I’m certainly honored to have my guests in the studio today.

Jackie 2:50
I’ll introduce them to you in just one second. But today’s insightful show is brought to you by our great friends at eview real estate. Our first guest is from The Brain and Psychological Sciences Research Center at Swinburne University of Technology here in Melbourne. Professor Joseph Ciorciari I have been practicing it I still get it wrong.

Jackie 3:15
Welcome to taking care of business.

Prof. Ciorciari 3:16
Thanks, Jackie.

Jackie 3:17
Good to have you. Oh, it’s been so great on I’ve been trying to organize to get you on and I we are really privileged to have you here because you are I would think Australia’s leading expert in the area of neuroscience, consumer neuroscience. And you’ve been involved with a lot of different research elements and you’re also Australian Chair of the Neuro Marketing Science and Business Association as well.

Prof. Ciorciari 3:42
That’s correct.

Jackie 3:42
Yes, that’s incredible now let’s start with some definitions. As I think it’s always a good place to start. Because as I was preparing for today, lots of big words and some I wasn’t quite sure what they meant. And I think let’s start with some definitions. So neuromarketing, what does that mean?

Prof. Ciorciari 3:59
Well, neuromarketing is the application of neuroscience and all the techniques that we have as neuroscientists for understanding how the brain works and how you think and make decisions. But it’s been applied to the marketing area for many, many years. last 10 years, in particular, neuromarketing has been at the fore.

Prof. Ciorciari 4:18
But prior to that, probably going back even 20 years people we’re doing social psychology, and even social neuroscience research, looking at how people make decisions about products and so forth. So it has to go back a few years. But it’s only the last 10 years, I think this is the 10th year where you can say neuromarketing is the field.

Jackie 4:40
Is the field. Yeah, because when I was at university 1000 years ago, it was called consumer behavior back then is it the same sort of field?

Prof. Ciorciari 4:48
Same thing. As you mentioned in your introduction, you’re bringing together social psychology, looking at how people interact, the decisions they make and so forth, but applying it to business.

Prof. Ciorciari 4:57
At the moment we’re going through sort of a neuro mania actually, because everything is neurolink, for example neurolegal, neuromarketing, of course, people are adding neuro to everything.

Prof. Ciorciari 5:08
But neuroscience can tell you so much more than just a forum discussion or a survey. They’re in ways in which there are many ways in which the brain works in terms of by the time you actually get to the point where you’ve made a decision, so many processes have taken place. And that’s what neuroscience can inform you about.

Jackie 5:28
What’s psychophysiology?

Prof. Ciorciari 5:30
Well, psychophysiology is an older term, it’s basically applying neuroscience techniques to understand the neurophysiology of the brain and looking at the relationship between mind and behavior in particular.

Jackie 5:46
So that neurophysiology, I’m going to really get down to layman’s terms, here is that understanding all the different compartments in your brain?

Prof. Ciorciari 5:54
The cells, the network’s, the different lobes of the brain, the development of the brain, the evolution, the embryological development of the brain. So that’s the neurophysiology looking at the electrical systems, the chemical systems associated with the brain neurotransmitters.

Jackie 6:09
All the transmitted sides all how they interrelate, isn’t it? And there’s been so much work done in this field of really of recent times.

Prof. Ciorciari 6:19
Neurophysiology, it’s a pretty big area. And for example, I belong to the Society for neuroscience, and we meet once a year. And there’s something like 30,000 plus people who come to this conference, one of the biggest conferences in the world. And if people look at the cells, the genes, the structures, the neuroimaging, the new techniques that we have available to us to looking at the brain and understanding the brain.

Prof. Ciorciari 6:49
We now know more about the genes of the brain than ever before, and how the genes relate to things like decision making, and personality. So it’s come a long way, but there’s a lot still to do.

Jackie 7:02
There’s always that myth that we only use, you know, 7% or 8% it’s a myth. What’s the reality? How much of our brain do we use?

Prof. Ciorciari 7:10
It’s always active. But it’s like saying, You have a beautiful Symphony Orchestra and everyone’s playing beautifully together. That’s the brain working at its best. And sometimes you have the brass and you have the strings doing the little bit and you might have a solo by someone.

Prof. Ciorciari 7:25
So the brain works that way. It’s when becomes a mess, where everyone is playing and doing your own thing. That’s, an example of what’s happening in schizophrenia, for example, that there are uncontrolled systems just doing whatever they want. Because that control mechanism, that beautiful interaction is lost. So, no, we don’t.

Jackie 7:49
Why do I have brains like analogies. Like you just gave that analogy then of the orchestra. And I’m like okay, that makes sense to me. Why does that make sense? Why do we use analogies to help explain an issue more easily?

Prof. Ciorciari 8:04
Well, if I had to explain to you the psycho architecture and the biomechanics, it’s quite complex. So I think it’s one of our skills that you know, we’re social people, we are social animals, we need to communicate and we need to find what level and what language we need to use to explain ourselves, and using analogies is a great way of doing that.

Jackie 8:25
It is and it’s something underutilized, I think.

Prof. Ciorciari 8:28
Absolutely. I like music anyway.

Jackie 8:29
Okay. Well, it’s also better if you’ve picked a topic that everyone can relate to as well you don’t use it analogy on a topic that no one can reIate to. The neurofeedback research.

Jackie 8:41
That’s been something that you’ve been doing in collaboration with the center of scientific research in France. And you’re currently completing research in collaboration with Latrobe union Murdoch University. And the Institute for television research didn’t even know there was one.

Prof. Ciorciari 8:56
Yeah they were at Murdoch University in Perth, and they’ve recently I won’t say dismantled because it’s still there. But some of the key players have moved on to bigger and better things, including one of my colleagues, Dwayne Varian, who’s working for Disney.

Jackie 9:15
Inside the Institute for television research, what do they do?

Prof. Ciorciari 9:19
Basically, they would help understand how people make decisions. It really was a neuro marketing side, but it was at a research level. There are many now commercially, companies that actually use neuroscience to as a service for people in marketing.

Prof. Ciorciari 9:37
So for example, one of my colleagues, who’s the president of the in the neuro marketing science Business Association, Professor Richard Silverstein, he runs a company called Neuro Insight. It’s an international company now. So he provides these various services and he has some pretty good clients at the moment.

Jackie 9:54
Now, as we mentioned earlier, I am a brand person that’s what I do for a living. And I couldn’t help look at all these different terms and the word neuro why don’t you use the word brain?

Prof. Ciorciari 10:08
Well, neuro is the buzzword. And I think people, you know, they if you say brain, people may get ideas of brain damage brain injury. Yeah. Those sorts of things.

Jackie 10:21
Okay so neuro is more positive?

Prof. Ciorciari 10:23
Yes. it’s more positive, I think Yeah. In terms of branding. Yeah which is what everyone’s using it for everything. And that’s why this is neuromania at the moment.

Jackie 10:31
That’s why we laugh and I kept thinking to myself, because it’s about simplicity, we were talking earlier. And I was going neurobiology, and everything’s got neuro in front of it now.

Prof. Ciorciari 10:40
I love neuroarchitecture, that’s a new one where people are designing, you know, great big buildings, and so forth. And using virtual technology. So people can just sort of walk through these architectures, these buildings, and they record their brain responses, their heart rate, their respiratory function, and so forth, indicating that they’re relaxed, or it’s making them anxious, which I really thought that’s psychophysiology at its best.

Prof. Ciorciari 11:05
Looking at how these physiological changes take place, that reflect the person’s mood. So you know, you might walk through a foyer, for example, or virtual foyer for a hotel that’s painted in red, and all sudden your heart starts going faster, and you’re not relaxed. Whereas if it’s painted in a sort of a nice green, people tend to be more relaxed. So, there are subtle things that happen that the sensory perceptions that we have that reflecting our physiology as well.

Jackie 11:32
Yeah colors, and we mentioned earlier about language, that’s very important. Choosing your words carefully. Now, I’m going to choose this word very carefully. I’m going to pronounce it very slowly. Because it’s a bit like super califragic lots of lots of letters in it. neuropsychoeconomics.

Prof. Ciorciari 11:49
Now that’s a big one.

Jackie 11:51
Classic. And I’ve gone what does that mean? Does that mean brian economics? Does it mean brian money or business brian, like what does it actually mean?

Prof. Ciorciari 11:59
I think it’s still neuromarketing. But for a while neuromarketing had a very bad connotation associated with it. As soon as you said that people would think, oh, you take your your, you’re reading people’s minds, you’re doing the brainwashing. And that’s not what we’re what’s happening in this area.

Prof. Ciorciari 12:14
So neuro psycho economics means you’re applying your science, psychology, to the understanding of economic decision making. So everything including, you know, will you vote for this particular person, and you look at the physiological responses associated with that.

Prof. Ciorciari 12:29
So that worm that appears on television when people are, you know, responding to a politician talking, that’s associated with the neuro psych economics, that’s just one example.

Jackie 12:40
And also, you’re doing a lot of research in that area, looking at consumer decision making processes and associated behaviors. Now, when we come back on the other side of this break, we’re going to explore that. So we’re going to get really down to business to talk to find out not only how your customers are thinking but as a business owner, what your brain is doing and how to understand yourself a little better to make your work life and your business run much more effectively.

Jackie 13:06
Listen, smarter, not harder, you’re on taking care of business exclusively on RPP FM, we’ll be right back after this. And it’s coming up to 20 past 11. Thank you for listening as we talk about the driving force in business, the brain, your brain, your customers brain with Professor Joseph Ciorciari, from The Brain and Psychological Sciences Research Center at Swinburne University of Technology.

Jackie 13:31
And just before the break, Joseph, we let everyone hanging on, they’ve been listening, I can’t leave this discussion, because I now need to know how I can then translate all his knowledge about neuro everything into improving my business. Now, one area of usiness I always been on about is without customers, you don’t have a business. That’s the basic elements of it. And one of the advice always is to walk in the customers shoes, but a lot of businesses find that difficult to do. Why is that?

Prof. Ciorciari 14:02
Yeah, it seems that some people in business leadership really don’t have a clue about getting into the shoes of their customers, they sort of don’t have the emotional intelligence to understand the feelings, what’s going to impact on them. And we do have a survey instrument at Swinburne called a suite, which basically measures emotional intelligence.

Prof. Ciorciari 14:25
And we’ve used that with people at hiring. It’s a skill that can be learned. But unfortunately, some people just don’t get it. They don’t understand their clients. And they put these massive campaigns together. For example, looking at advertising, you just don’t understand the market.

Prof. Ciorciari 14:43
I think the TSA had a good idea. They actually approached all these young movie makers and they said, Listen, we need to do something here and they sponsored this meth med program to make a difference program. And so, you know, they thought that maybe well the problem with young people today in the driving habits and that you They’re the ones that died. It’s terrible.

Prof. Ciorciari 15:03
The younger ones generally. And so TSA decided to contact math med and we’ll set it up. And we got these young filmmakers who made these great little ads. And we tested them as well, we found that they did connect with their audience with their clients, and TSA had the the intelligence to make the decision to give, you know, we need to speak to young people, why don’t we get young people to speak to young people, and that worked really well.

Prof. Ciorciari 15:29
And there’s some great examples across Australia where that’s happening, especially in indigenous health as well, you know, getting into young indigenous filmmakers making movies to help with the social issues with the with their people with the indigenous youth, looking at things like drugs, driving, and social media, and so forth. So you really have to understand your client, if you don’t understand your client base, and the personalities and the foibles and their idiosyncrasies. Well, then what’s the point?

Jackie 16:01
A lot is wasted. You know, one of the things about advertising 50% work, the problem is they don’t know which 50% Well, this is part of the problem is that you need to understand what makes your customers tick, you know, in a layman’s terms, so if a business owner doesn’t understand their customer, how can they improve their empathy? or How can they increase their emotional intelligence?

Prof. Ciorciari 16:26
Well, there are courses you can do. And you go to these various leadership places, and they teach you emotional intelligence, emotional intelligence. Yes, to a certain extent, it is hardwired, but you know, we’re going to be talking about neuroplasticity and learning today, too. And it seems that you can learn this skill, you can, you know, get rid of some of your biases, you can get rid of some of those hardwired connections that Mikey file in understanding your your client or communicating with your fellow human being. So there are opportunities out there.

Jackie 16:58
What about business owners? And I’ve come across them who think they have great empathy, think they know their customers, but don’t. So they have a complete lack of self awareness. How do you improve that is there anything you can do?

Prof. Ciorciari 17:12
If they want to improve their business, they’ve got to learn from those who are successful, and those that are successful, do have those skills, and they’ve got to learn those skills. Otherwise, why stay in business?

Jackie 17:23
Yeah, what’s interesting isn’t it always worries me. The other thing too, that I find really interesting with neuroscience and neuro marketing, is understanding human behavior is effectively the bottom line of what it’s about. And there’s some, if you can understand some basic elements of human behavior, there’s some good tips that you can then translate into your day to day business, and also into your marketing side of business.

Jackie 17:48
And one, which is really simple is and you mentioned it earlier, as humans, we’re social creatures. And so we like this sense of belonging we like to belong to, to things that will add to our tribe. And that’s why clubs work, variety of different associations. There’s the oddest Association names ever. It’s because people got I found someone else who has this interest in this weed area as well as unusual area. So we tend to get together in groups and and tribes. Is that why loyalty programs work for instance?

Prof. Ciorciari 18:22
Absolutely. So because you feel like you’re part of something that, you know, you’re contributing, but you’re also getting benefits from it. So yeah, that’s why they do work. Yeah. And there have been some neuroscience based studies in some of our colleagues in the Netherlands, for example.

Prof. Ciorciari 18:38
Who have looked at brand loyalty and why people go back to certain brands, because they’ve, they’ve got this sense of belonging to that, that brand that they’ve, they’ve invested in that brand, and that brand has been good to them. So, you know, when this brand brings out a new product, like are they one of the first to buy.

Jackie 18:56
So they built a relationship with the brand, they built trust with the brand that they know the brands going to deliver, and a number of times people are attracted to brands? Because it’s aspirational, so that brand’s fulfilling a gap or a need in their personality?

Jackie 19:13
But what’s interesting in that whole little discussion we’ve had the last 30 seconds, they’re all emotional drivers. They’re not rational drivers. We haven’t talked about how much that’s gonna cost or anything from that, you know, the functionality element. It’s very emotionally driven. Is that sort of it has that been driving the the growth in emotional intelligence?

Prof. Ciorciari 19:32
Absolutely. I mean, if you have a look at the neurophysiology of the brain, so many parts of the brain are associated with monitoring, responding to our emotions, and also how we react and relate to other people as well. A huge amount of our brain is associated with that part of their process.

Prof. Ciorciari 19:50
And when you’re doing some FMRI work or some eg looking at brainwaves and so forth, you do see those markers, you know, if the person’s interacting with a face Like that face, you get quite big response on the right hand side. And this sort of work I also do is have a look at when things go wrong, too.

Prof. Ciorciari 20:08
So, for example, if you’re responding to a happy face, normally, you’d get this activation on the right hand side of the brain. But some people can’t react that way. So in other words, people with depression, people with various affective disorders, they react differently.

Prof. Ciorciari 20:23
So I think you have to understand that if you’re putting a product together, or a brand or some sort of program or advertising program, you need to also understand how is this going to impact on other people who may be, you know, fragile, and a lot of marketing does not.

Prof. Ciorciari 20:41
And that’s the area that I’m really interested in, especially with compulsive buying, people can’t help themselves. And they’re attracted to all this advertising and the advertising makes them feel great. They feel like they belong to something. And in the Indigo home, they’ve got this house full of stuff they’ve bought, and it’s just causing, you know, lots of depression, and so forth. So that’s the area I’m really interested too, and I think there’s a community, who should be very responsible and deal with that.

Jackie 21:10
How our businesses like Coles and Woolworths and things that have all this, like actually set it up to encourage impulse buying at the checkout. How do you think they are going to work view on this?

Prof. Ciorciari 21:23
It doesn’t work for some of these individuals who do have these compulsive buying tendencies.

Jackie 21:30
So it’s almost a responsibility, I think that’ll end up going down the check there. Now the other I want to see if this is a myth, or real, we talked about you lift and right brain, some people say, Oh, I’m more of a lift brain than a right brain, left brain being creative, and the right brain being more functional, rational, logical side. Is that true or not?

Prof. Ciorciari 21:51
Yes, it’s true, to a certain extent. And if you have a look at the good neuroscience studies, you do find that yes, when you’re processing language and logical information, you do tend to use more of the left, especially, you know, the language areas like Verna keys area and Broca’s area, and so forth in the left frontal areas of the brain, the strategic planning areas of the brain.

Prof. Ciorciari 22:11
But if you’re dealing with emotions, you have to make a decision about emotions. And so it’s a cognitive skill, and it uses the right hand side. So yes, there is data study that my colleague and I, John Gountas, from Murdoch University, we did some FMRI work looking at personality using his particular scale.

Prof. Ciorciari 22:28
And we found that people who are more logical in their processing is tend to be more left, but those who are more imaginative tend to be more, right. So there, we have this scale, and we got people to think about, sorry, we got them to think about the personality while they’re in the scanner. Long behold, these areas light up quite nicely.

Jackie 22:47
Oh, that’s good to know. Now, the other area that I wanted to touch on with you is that at the moment, we’re going through unprecedented change in business. And we’re being overloaded from a communication perspective. So I was reading some research somewhere in the 70s, were exposed to 500 messages a day.

Jackie 23:05
Now, it’s anywhere between 5000 to 20,000 messages a day. And that could be advertising messages, whether it be on your phone, someone posting something on Facebook, talking to people radio, outdoor billboards, newspapers, a variety of different channels that are coming attacking you.

Jackie 23:26
And what’s happening is our brain hasn’t evolved, you know, in the last 20 or 30 years, to keep up with that amount of information that we were getting. And so we’re getting information overload, is that right? And how is that? How is our brain coping with it? What’s a coping mechanism that we’re using?

Prof. Ciorciari 23:43
Our brain has an incredible capacity to learn. It’s constantly rewiring itself. Sorry, it’s constantly wrong. We’re rewiring itself. Yeah. So you know, the skills that we these demands that we have. They tend to be accommodated by the brain. So yes, we are dealing with more messages.

Prof. Ciorciari 24:07
But we’re coping, I think the brain is able it has the capacity to cope, it has that capacity in terms of its neural processing. But the problem is, it can lead to stress if you’re taking if you’re not able to cope with it, or you’re or you’re not able to sort of filter out what’s important, what’s not important. So you may lose by becoming more stressed. So you need timeout.

Jackie 24:29
Okay. And is there also a filtering process? So does the brain automatically go no no.

Prof. Ciorciari 24:38
It’s an automatic bias. So the brain is able to say, Well, this is important, I’ll let this go through. This is not as important. I won’t let that go through. So it does have the capacity in a normal brain. But if you’re looking at someone who has an affective disorder of some sort, like anxiety, depression, a compulsive disorder, they don’t have that protection. And so it could be a problem.

Jackie 24:59
That’s interesting, and that is good to know for marketing is getting customers attention is becoming a lot more difficult because of all these elements to it. Okay, well next, if you need some inspiration you want to hang around for our next guest. We’ll be right back after this.

Jackie 25:13
You’re listening to taking care of business only on RPP FM. Have you enjoying is dropping out an interesting conversation today that was think obviously by Aretha Franklin as we talk about our brain. And our next guest has used his brain in extraordinary ways.

Jackie 25:32
And he’s demonstrated its thinking power, and how to get multiple brains, I want to really know how to get multiple brains. Bill Gasiamis. Welcome to Taking Care of Business.

Bill 25:43
Thanks, Jackie.

Jackie 25:43
Now, let’s just start with the beginning of your story, because it’s quite fascinating. You were a small business owner, you ran a property management business?

Bill 25:53
Yeah property maintenance company. It’s been 10 years this year.

Jackie 25:56
Yeah. And then what happened? You had a stroke?

Bill 25:59
Yeah. So in Feb, 2012, I woke up one morning had numbness in one of my toes of my left side. And I ignored it for seven days, as most blokes would. And as I ignored it, the numbness moved from the toe, all the way up to the whole left side, including the face.

Bill 26:17
And it was my lovely wife, who said, why don’t I take you to the hospital? They’ll tell you there’s nothing wrong. And then you can go to work tomorrow, which was my priority. And I said, Well, that’s a great idea. We’ll do that. And sure enough, I went there. And they told me that there was a bleed in the brain.

Jackie 26:32
Ah, goodness. So then what happened?

Bill 26:36
So then I came home, I was told no work, don’t go to work, don’t do anything. I spent seven days in hospital while trying to work out what it was that caused the bleed.

Jackie 26:45
And you were still running your business?

Bill 26:48
I was believe it or not from my hospital bed with a computer, laptop and a phone.

Jackie 26:53
Did you tell any of your customers what had happened?

Bill 26:55
Look, I didn’t because some of the challenges with my customers was that they needed to feel like I was around all the time, even if it was just over a phone call, or whatever. So I had the conscious ability to communicate with them still. So I didn’t tell them, what I did was, I just let them know that I had other things to attend to, and that there’ll be other people stepping in for me while I was out doing the other things that I was doing.

Jackie 27:20
Now, as part of your recovery, you use neuroplasticity to help you recover. Tell us how you did that.

Bill 27:30
So neuroplasticity around people who have suffered strokes is the real buzzword now. And what I discovered about and what I learned about it was that neuroplasticity means that the brain changes itself. So when I lost the function, and after the third incident, I actually lost the ability to work, to walk, I realized that I could actually train another part of the brain to pick up whether walking was lost at the part that was damaged by the stroke.

Bill 28:00
So because I knew that I actually felt empowered, now I had a way to directionalize my recovery of walking. And it wasn’t just about, you know, the people who were helping me recover, saying, you know, you need to learn how to walk again, do this and do that. I actually knew that by doing certain exercises regularly, and doing, you know, with sort of my heart behind the exercise, because I was going to get a great outcome.

Bill 28:24
I realized that I could actually grow neurons in another part of the brain, or cells in other part of the brain to take over that function where I lost it. And I was so enthusiastic and excited about that.

Jackie 28:36
Who told you that?

Bill 28:37
So by chance, I went into this course, nearly four years ago. And there’s there’s two guys a guy called Grant Soosalu, and Marvin Oka. And they were doing some research two years worth of research on different intelligences in our body. And they said to me, well do you know that you can use a thing called neuroplasticity to help you recover?

Bill 28:59
And they explained to me for the first time and I was quite amazed. So at this course, I learnt about firstly neuroplasticity, and then how to actually directionalize it to get an outcome.

Jackie 29:10
So how do you do it? So how did you then change the neurons and the structure of the neurons in your brain to help you walk again?

Bill 29:19
So firstly, I understood and I knew that just by walking, my brain was changing. And that even if I wasn’t able to walk, like a baby does, when it first does the first couple of steps, you know, cells are growing, and then you do it again and the cells continue to grow.

Bill 29:35
If you do that, from a heart space, or from a space where it’s, you know, I really have a great outcome that my outcome is I’ll be able to walk, drive, booth my children and my wife, again, what happens is, the changes are more rapid, and they are more setting concrete and setting in stone, so to speak.

Jackie 29:50
So is that right, Joseph, that your behavior can actually adjust and change the way that your brain?

Prof. Ciorciari 29:58
Your brain has an amazing capacity as I said before to repair itself, and some people genetically are inclined to repair well, but I think in your case, Bill you were very motivated. And you had this idea that the brain does repair itself. So you didn’t have to tell where the cells had to go.

Prof. Ciorciari 30:14
But your brain learned what to do, and how it reorganized itself. So being motivated doing the rehabilitation, learning and pushing yourself, that is one of the the key factors behind it. And so that’s why the brain was doing it. You were stimulating the brain, the brain was really learning.

Prof. Ciorciari 30:33
And so these different areas, the brain is an amazing tissue, but it has that capacity to repair. Unfortunately, the older you get, you lose that capacity. In some cases, if the damage is too bad, there’s not much resource available for retraining. But I’m so glad to see you’re okay.

Jackie 30:54
You wouldn’t even know you would never have guessed ever. Now that motivation, Joseph that Bill had, which is extraordinary, is that some part of his brain that is driving or motivating him, what’s making him so motivated?

Prof. Ciorciari 31:11
Well, that could be his personality.

Jackie 31:12
What do you think, Bill, what what drives you What motivated you,

Bill 31:16
I think what drives me is a very heart oriented, heart centered kind of person. So I put my family first. So when I wanted to be with them, I could only be with them in a way that I felt wasn’t going to be difficult for me to be with them, which was I didn’t want them pushing me around in a wheelchair.

Bill 31:32
So I came from a heart space. And I really understood that, you know, if I have my best interests at heart, which then is my children’s best interests at heart and my wife’s best interests at heart, then I will do whatever I have to do to make sure that I’m getting an outcome, which is I’ll be walking, you know, sooner than the doctors expected. So they had me sheduled for two months worth of rehab, and I was out of hospital in a month.

Jackie 31:56
It’s a wonderful story you know, the human condition, you know, really inspiring. And now tell us what your heart brain and gut brain is?

Bill 32:06
Right? Okay. So the two gentlemen that sort of invited me to that course, earlier on, that I learned about neuroplasticity, had also been doing some research about the fact that neuroscience is finding that there are the structures of a brain also exist in the heart.

Bill 32:25
And in the gut. Now they look different. One of them looks like a pump, and the lawn looks like stinky plumbing. But they actually have all the neurotransmitters and all the chemicals required to consider it a brain, they actually have those in the heart and in the gut.

Bill 32:38
So, you know, have I had somebody ever said to you, you know, my heart wasn’t in that particular conversation or in that particular business meeting. That’s not a fluke. You know, there’s something more going on there. It’s not just you, using that term, that term is just cross culturally, that my heart wasn’t in it. And how about the guys who make really gutsy decisions?

Bill 33:01
I followed my gut. What’s that all about? So what it turns out is the gut has 500 million neurons in there, which means that has the same brain capacity as a cat. And cats are pretty intelligence. If your animal person, you know, that when you come home, and the cat knows that you’re home, you’re not doing anything, unless you pet it, feed it, and it basically controls your life until it’s sorted.

Bill 33:25
So the gut brain, and also there’s a book, many, many different books on both the heart and the gut by mBIT there’s Dr. Michael Gershon has written a book. And he calls it the second brain. So there’s a lot of work now coming up that is confirming that, in fact, there is an intelligence in there.

Bill 33:49
And if we only knew how to tap into it, listen to the different language of it, as well as a different language of the heart, we’d be able to make a more logical, quick decisions about how we go about, you know, running businesses.

Jackie 34:04
So this is the concept of multiple brains. Okay that’s interesting. Now, what are you doing now, you still running your property management business?

Bill 34:11
So I am still running the business, I’m looking at how to evolve it so that it suits me so that because I can’t do the physical side of it anymore. And also looking at how I’m going to teach people about these things that I learned how to take the intelligence of our head, heart and gut.

Bill 34:29
And actually use that to make better wiser decisions. So that you know, our businesses flourish rather than in this exponential times with things moving so dramatically, like inflammation, you know, picking the things that are going to be the most beneficial to the way that we want to evolve and run our business.

Jackie 34:47
And you do quite a bit of work now for the Stroke Foundation. You’re an ambassador for them. How did they help you during this journey?

Bill 34:54
Well, they were amazing. So the Stroke Foundation is the one stop shop for people to go to if you have a Brain Injury of some sort, especially with regards to stroke. And they have many organizations that they collaborate with. And they can give information on for, for parents of people that are recovering for spouses, and it’s sort of a great a great place to get information, how to start recovering.

Bill 35:18
There’s an amazing website now that they’ve developed called enable me, and enables people to go to that website, and connect with communities, like we spoke about earlier, and feel like you’re not alone. So communities of people who have either cared for somebody recovering from a stroke, and, and or recovered from a stroke, and it’s like a social network, similar to Facebook, but it’s specific around stroke.

Jackie 35:45
It’s interesting if you hadn’t had your stroke, and it’s always this philosophical discussion, would you still be doing the same thing running your business and nothing has changed? Do you think or not?

Bill 35:57
The best thing that ever happened to me was the three strokes.

Jackie 36:00
I mean, it’s weird, isn’t it? To say that, but it really shifted completely shifted your thinking.

Bill 36:06
It completely shifted my thinking and my understanding about my body, how I could actually be in control of some aspects of my brain and the way that it operated and worked. You know, it gets me having conversations with people like Joseph, which, you know, really are fascinating because of these guys.

Bill 36:22
And this is what I loved about how, how much more supported I felt they’ve been doing work on this stuff for many, many hundreds of years ago from the beginning. So I thought it was just one of the most amazing things that had happened to me, the learnings have been just never ending.

Jackie 36:38
That’s wonderful. Now, Bill, will you hang around for the rest of the show?

Bill 36:41
I will.

Jackie 36:42
We’re gonna have a quick chat with Bill and Joseph on the other side of this break, get brainia from the best in the business world on taking care of business on RPP FM, don’t go anywhere. Making your mind up. We as consumers, we’re constantly trying to make a mind up.

Jackie 36:57
And what is the process of cognitive decision making and consumer behavior? That’s what we’re talking about today, with our very special guest, Professor Joseph Ciorciari, I’m practicing Joseph, I’m getting better. And of course, Bill Gasiamis who’s highly inspirational.

Jackie 37:16
Now, Bill, just before the break, we were talking about your motivating self technique of changing your brain, which is incredible. And I wanna know what is a Multi Brain Integration Technique. Is that, is that how you do it?

Bill 37:35
You do do it. Yeah. So the field mBIT.

Jackie 37:39
So it’s actually called a field?

Bill 37:41
Yeah. So I’m not sure if it’s officially a field of science, but it’s an emerging field.

Jackie 37:50
Joseph is it an official field?

Prof. Ciorciari 37:53
I’m not sure. I only learned about it today.

Jackie 37:56
Okay, so it’s very emerging, we like exclusives here on Taking Care of Business.

Bill 38:01
It’s only been around for a couple of years. And the guys that did the research had done a couple of years of research before that.

Jackie 38:08

Bill 38:09
They are two Melbourne guys. Yes. so Marvin Oka, and Grant Soosalu. And they developed the work behind the programs now that we run. And Multiple brain integration techniques gives you a method of accessing the intelligence in your heart, in your head, and in your gut and using them together to make those generative decisions that you need to make.

Bill 38:37
Which are the ones that are going to support your business, you know, more rapidly than the ones that are made just at the head level. If we make just a decision about, we thought that this was going to be a good idea, it doesn’t necessarily always work out, because we haven’t listened to what our gut instinct was telling us about connecting with that particular organization or that person.

Bill 38:57
So you can go and find courses being run on this topic. And my site has the details of a number of courses that we run. And basically they’re all around leadership and decision making. And they’re all around how we get people to actually understand the different languages of their intelligences and the different ways to apply what it is that those intelligences are sharing.

Jackie 39:29
So you’re getting involved running these courses as well.

Bill 39:31
I am, yeah so we’re running one in February, in Melbourne. And again, it’s about how we, you know, give people the tools to really take what they’ve known instinctively that there was some kind of an intelligence there and they refer to it in their daily language, but now it’s actually giving them a focus on okay, this is what you’re actually doing.

Bill 39:53
This is what you’re actually achieving. And this is how you can directionalize it to get an outcome that you want. connect better with your clients. connect better with the staff that you employ, and have a more amazing experience with them, not just one that’s about how much money can I take out of your pocket.

Jackie 40:09
What’s the website?

Bill 40:10

Jackie 40:15
We’ll put a link to our Facebook page for that. And I might see you there. Joseph, I might see you there, too. It sounds, it sounds really interesting. And what was interesting, Joseph, what Bill was talking about was that heart and gut and the it’s not just about the brain is that there’s neurons right through your whole body?

Prof. Ciorciari 40:36
Well, the central nervous system is massive. It’s not just in what’s in your head. The spinal cord, for example, is many neurons being millions of neurons as well. And it’s associated with controlling sensory and motor and from an from a neuroscience point of view. I’m going to look into some of the things you told me. And by the way, I mean, or have you been, you’re an amazing human being?

Jackie 41:00
Well, I think, Okay, can I just say, That’s why I was excited about today’s show, pulling it together, cuz I think this will be one of the best episodes that we’re ever going to do on taking because it’s so fascinating. And it’s a work in progress. And that’s the bit our like. It’s not like a book saying, This is exactly how you’re going to do it.

Jackie 41:18
But saying that Joseph and I remember learning this at university when I was doing marketing, one of the big areas was about reducing cognitive dissonance from a from a consumer perspective, which is, again, back to can you just explain what that means a bit more?

Prof. Ciorciari 41:34
It basically is associated with directing an individual’s attention to, in this case, a product, for example, dissonance means an inability to, to attend, inability to take in what’s the most important component that you’ve been bombarded with? So that’s, in essence, from a euroscience point of view?

Jackie 41:59
And so an example of that in business would be after cell service.

Prof. Ciorciari 42:01
Yeah, exactly. And inability to continue the journey.

Jackie 42:07
Yeah. So it’s not just ego, a customer comes into my shop, or buy something, or my product or service online. And then they buy it. And that’s the end of the relationship. It’s about continuing.

Prof. Ciorciari 42:18
They want more, it’s like going back to the tribe thing is that we as social creatures, we need to be part of something.

Jackie 42:24
And I liked that the Joneses have got a tool, they’ve got it. That’s all the referral. And that’s how social media is working. And that’s why that’s, that’s tapped into that element of social behavior. Now, I have to ask, I cannot do today’s show, without doing our pearls of wisdom.

Bill 42:41
Welcome to taking care of businesses, pearls of wisdom with Jackie Mitchel.

Jackie 42:45
Well this whole show has been a pearl of wisdom. But Bill, I’ll start with you. I can’t wait to hear Bill’s pearl of wisdom. What is it?

Bill 42:56
Look, I think that if you’re open to new things, it’s really possible to achieve amazing, extraordinary results. And it doesn’t have to be hard, it can be really easy. So for me, the pillar was when I discovered that I could run my business from my hospital bed, with a mobile phone and a computer, the game changed, everything changed.

Bill 43:18
So I think we need to just step back and look at the little things that we could implement really easy for us. They’re the ones that are going to get us the most results, the ones that are heart, is sort of behind and in it, rather than the ones that we think that we need to do, because somebody has told us you should do this, or you should do that.

Jackie 43:37
The most extraordinary part of that for me listening to that story about you working from your hospital bed, is you didn’t tell any of your customers what had happened, like not many people could do that. I think I’d be going look I’m in my hospital bed. Sorry, I’ve had a stroke. And but you didn’t even mention it because you were thinking about your customers thinking well, they don’t need to know what’s going on.

Jackie 43:56
They’re expecting a service for me. But you very clearly also thought about the future to go well, if I tell them that now, they might then get a little bit wobbly and lose their confidence in my delivery. So I don’t want them to know, I want them to continue to build up that trust. So you were looking further into the future. Were you aware that you were doing that at the time?

Bill 44:14
Look, I think what happened is as the brain kind of, sort of shut down a little bit, my gut instinct kicked in. And as a result of the gut instinct kicking in, I was doing things to preserve myself, you know, self preservation, and I needed to preserve my business. I need to preserve myself, my family’s lifestyle, all the things that I had worked so hard for, you know, in those 10 years.

Bill 44:36
So, if I told my customers, they don’t know enough about me, anyway, to know that, okay, this is a guy that we can still trust. They just know the business side of me. So there’s no point sharing the personal side of me unless they ask.

Jackie 44:50
So that was a conscious decision?

Bill 44:52
It was.

Jackie 44:52
Very clever, Joseph. Oh, I can’t wait. What’s your pearl wisdom?

Prof. Ciorciari 44:57
Well it’s very similar to Bill’s I always say I tell my students, this is my personal philosophy that you stay open minded. You listen, that’s very important. And you also learn and you continue learning. You know, life should be a journey of of learning. And never stop learning.

Jackie 45:15
That’s wonderful. Well, of course you have to say that because you are a academic os that how you describe yourself?

Prof. Ciorciari 45:21
Well, I’m an academic Yeah, University Academic.

Jackie 45:23
How do you describe yourself at a barbecue when you meet people? Because I’d be a bit intimidated by what you do. I’d imagine that’ll be become a bit self conscious, oh he’s summing me up.

Prof. Ciorciari 45:32
That’s why I’ve got a lovely wife. That’s a job to keep my head small. Exactly she deflects.

Jackie 45:40
Yeah. Excellent. I’d like to thank our very special guests that I really enjoyed. It’s gone too fast. As always, Professor Joe Ciorciari, thank you so much for coming into the studio. I know you had a long drive across the city today. Really appreciate it. And of course, Bill Gasiamis, we wish you all the very best for your new career, I can see a career in the speaker circuit, I think you’re starting to do a little bit.

Jackie 46:02
Yeah, I can see why I’m loving it. Well, you’re very good at it. And it’s a wonderful, inspiring story. I really love it. Thanks for coming in the studio. Really appreciate it. We hope you’ve heard lots of advice today. And of course, being inspired. But don’t forget, you can see taking care of business on Sky business news on the small business show on foxtel on Tuesdays at 2:30.

Jackie 46:22
Keep ahead of the game and trends in your business and join us on Thursday, the 12th of November, we’re glad we decided to make up your mind and listen to today’s show podcast on the website. He is Florence and the Machine, we look forward to your company next Friday at 11am. In the meantime, keep taking care of your business.

Bill 46:43
So there you have it, that was an interesting episode, it’s always great being on the other side of the microphone being involved as a participant, rather than as a host or a interviewer, you get a completely different feeling and different understanding of what it’s like for, you know, my own guests when they come on the program.

Bill 47:00
And being interviewed for one of the amazing episodes of the embracing show that we’ve had, and also that are coming up in the near future. And some amazing people to be involved with Jackie’s really prominent and really somebody who goes out of her way to help small business and help small business succeed.

Bill 47:21
And also Joseph who’s doing some amazing work in the in the field of neuro marketing, I’m sure there’ll be a lot more to come from that particular field in the future, and also hope to try and get Joseph on the program here. So we can get a bit more of an insight into some of the findings that they’ve discovered that help in in the area of marketing to people using neuroscience.

Bill 47:47
So that’s it for another episode of The mBraining Show. I really do hope that you enjoyed that program. I really enjoyed being involved in the recording of it. And I just wanted to let you know that if you are in the process of thinking about becoming an mBIT certified coach, jump on to Google and type mBIT coaching in your country or in your state and have a look and see whether or not there’s any certifications that are happening in your area.

Bill 48:22
This is not a program that you should miss, especially if you’re a coach or an upcoming coach. Even somebody who’s studied NLP, you see MB multiple brain integration techniques is the coaching modality that not only coaches to your clients head brain but also to their heart and gut brain.

Bill 48:42
And when you become an mBIT certified coach you will evolve your coaching practice and stand out because you have a point of difference from your competitors. at one of our recent ambit coaching certifications. One of our participants had this to say the training is still flowing and integrating through my system. But I know I have experienced something profound.

Bill 49:06
So this episode of the branding show is brought to you by one of the world’s leading mBIT coach certification providers. If you are in a country that does not currently have an mBIT coach certification course being run, and you would like to have one delivered where you live and get in touch with me. I’d be happy to talk to you about how we might make that happen.

Bill 49:32
Go to website and fill out the contact form and I will be in touch. If you need a speaker for your next event. drop me a line visit I’d love to hear and talk to you about your upcoming event. Until the next episode of The mBraining Show. Thank you for listening and for tuning in to mBIT radio.

Intro 50:10
The presenters and special guests of this podcast intend to provide accurate and helpful information to their listeners. These podcasts can not take into consideration individual circumstances and are not intended to be a substitute for independent medical advice from a qualified health professional.

Intro 50:28
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Intro 50:48
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