#940: What Leaders Should Not Do

Dental A Team Podcast

Kiera is joined by DAT Consultant Dana Morsell to talk about common leadership pitfalls, and how you can overcome them. They discuss such points as:

• Thinking you have to make all the decisions

• Navigating a lack of creativity or problem-solving

• Being too focused on goals, and not enough on happiness

• And more

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Transcript:

Kiera Dent (00:00.758)

Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera and today is a great day. I have the one and only Dana Morselle on the podcast. Everybody who works with her loves her. She won our review challenge. If you want to help Dana out and you love her on the podcast, go leave us a Google review. Make her even the more triumphant winner. But really, like it would be awesome. We have a goal to hit 100 Google reviews before the end of the year. So you guys do it for your practices. We're asking you now help us out. If you love this podcast, go leave it.

Dana, how did it feel to win the Google review? Like most loved consultant apparently, according to those reviews, how did that feel for you?

Dana (00:34.995)

It was awesome. It felt really good. I wouldn't say most loved. I think that I have some viable competitors that are amazing. And it just felt good to see the love, not just for me, but I think for Dental A Team and all the things that we bring. I think being able to make an impact is so special to me. so, you know, seeing it in words just brought a lot of joy.

Kiera Dent (00:40.836)

you

Kiera Dent (00:57.732)

Mm-hmm.

Kiera Dent (01:01.856)

I agree. It was actually so incredible because I think that that's the proof, right? That's the proof of what we do. it's the proof of our clients showing up as well as the proof of our consulting works. Our consulting gets results. Our consulting changes lives. Like I say often, life is my passion and dentistry is my platform. so helping people have their most dreamy lives and doing it through dentistry and helping the systems and the pieces and helping evolve these leaders and

Day in day out loving them. I'm so excited 2025 we are doing in person events for business and leadership and I'm so excited to meet people more face to face and to have more collaboration and to have these brilliant offices and Offices who feel like they're not doing so well All of them are brilliant in their own way and helping them see that they have a special sauce even if they feel like

I'm less than I know when I go to groups, I'm like, what the heck do I have to bring to the table? And I think that that's just so unfortunate that as humans, we've trained ourselves to think that we're less than when as children, we were brought into this world believing that we're more than and so helping people realize they have something to bring to the table and what do you have to give and what can you share to help these other offices flourish? Gosh, this is what I'm here for. This is what we're about. So bring it on. If you want to be a part of our inner circle, reach out [e-mail].

All of our clients were super pumped to have you, but yeah, reach out. is limited spacing. And so our venue has been booked. It's in Scottsdale, Arizona. And so if you want to be a part of that, reach out. [e-mail] have virtual and in-person, so be sure to check out. But Dana, on the topic of leadership, so business and leadership is really what we're focused on. You had an interesting point of on-call that we're always talking about, like leaders, leaders, leaders, and what should leaders do? But Dana, brilliant. Bring in the topic for today and let's dive right in.

Dana (02:49.661)

Sure, so today I thought it would be fun to take a look at the flip side and like what are things that leaders commonly do that they should stop doing or are barriers or are holding them back?

Kiera Dent (02:59.536)

I love it. Like the flip side of leadership, because you're right, like, leadership can feel like you've got to do, do, do, do, but actually, there's a lot of don't do and stop doing. So Dana, take it away. Let's get into this juicy. I'm really excited for leaders to hear. I actually think it's a breath of fresh air for leaders. Like, there's something I can stop doing. Amazing. I'm like pen and paper in hand. Let's go.

Dana (03:22.781)

Yeah, yeah, and I think number one is stop feeling like, for me, that I've been talking about lately, is stop feeling like you have to make all of the decisions. And I think that as leaders and as practice owners, we feel like I have to be the one to make all the decisions. I have to be available for everyone to come to me with everything. And I think that going in with the mindset of stop doing that.

because you have capable people around you. That's why you hired them. That's why you brought them on. And so I've just been talking about it so much lately and it is understand that your team has the potential to make decisions and to find solutions and to do the things alongside you and with you and you don't always have to be the decision maker.

Kiera Dent (04:14.76)

Amen to that. And I think it's tricky because I think we're so I'm almost like attuned to speaking up so quickly. And I know I was just in a leadership meeting with our leadership team. And I literally had to sit there and bite my tongue. But you're right, Dana. You want the team to come up with the solutions. You want them to struggle. You want them to throw out ideas that aren't the best ideas. Allow them, because that's how you actually got good at making decisions as a leader. And I find so often,

Like I think about, I want robots or do I want humans that think and take responsibility for their actions? The more they do it, yeah, they're going to fail. But like, is it really failing or is it actually just learning? Some things will be wrong. but ask the team. And I think a good way to redirect, if you're like me and it's like, I have the answer. I have the answer. I have the answer. Like, I just want to keep giving them the answers and telling them is what do you guys think? And then I literally have to sit there and in my mind, like count to 10, like one, two.

Like let there be silence because if you can let there be silence, they'll start to realize you are not going to always give the answers. And what do you think? And asking maybe some of your quieter team members, like, what do you think? What do you think would be the solutions? Our quietest team member is Shelbi and Shelbi sits and observes and Shelbi has wisdom beyond. But sometimes unless prompted, she won't speak up. And so really giving some of them an opportunity to might help you. So I love that, Dana. What happens if your team has a really dumb idea though? Like that's a real thing. Like, okay.

I'm not gonna have the solutions, but they come in and it is like, no, what do you say then? Cause you don't want to disempower them, but you also don't want to be the one who's like making all the decisions. How do you navigate that?

Dana (05:55.793)

Yeah, and I think if there's any part of it that you can take that is good, right? Consider that. And then I think, you know what? Keep bringing those ideas. I love that you spoke up today. Keep those ideas coming. You don't have to say that it was a terrible idea. You also don't have to necessarily acknowledge that it was a great idea. But what you want to do is keep the focus on keep bringing them to me. Keep speaking up. Like so proud of you for being confident to share an idea today.

Kiera Dent (06:23.14)

Mm-hmm. And I also think like another piece on it is asking your team like what What what do you think we should do about this? So instead of it like I know we'll have in our slack chat of hey I have this question What do you guys like what do you think and I love to redirect and be like hey? Why don't you tell me what you think first? And then I can give you some solutions and say I want you to do this because I always want you coming with solutions I always want you coming with answers because I like what if I'm not here one day?

I need to make sure I'm training you all to be able to make decisions just as good or better than I am. And if you have that mindset and the team knows that, now they're empowered to do it. So tip number one, leaders, stop making all the decisions and empower your team to do. All right? I love it, Dana. What else? What else do you have for leaders to stop doing?

Dana (07:07.528)

So one thing that I have been thinking about lately is, it's going to come up, you have to hear me out on this one, right? so, it stopped being so goal focused in that don't put goals over happiness.

Kiera Dent (07:15.722)

Okay, I don't know what she's about to say, it's surprise for me too.

Kiera Dent (07:29.188)

you

Dana (07:29.201)

And I feel like so often I keep seeing that like, yes, we want to build goals. We want to talk about goals, but also need to assess that are these goals that you're setting just because you want to achieve something or you want to win or you want to just go to the next level, but yet they don't bring you happiness. So when I say don't be so goal focused, is be happiness focused too.

Kiera Dent (07:51.556)

Yeah.

I think a good, as you were saying that it made me think of like, is it ego focused or is it happiness focused? And Tiff actually gave me some really good feedbacks. I'll speak to this. She said, Kiera, I think you need to stop and enjoy where we've been and where we are. She said, I think it's really hard for you because like I am a driver and I want to keep going. But she's like, but Kiera, you being happy with where we are does not mean we're not going to work on goals as much. It doesn't mean that we're not going to keep growing. It doesn't mean that you're becoming a lazy boss. She's like, it

really is appreciating and being happy with where we are. And Jason says it to me all the time, my husband, he's like, Kiera, like, why is life so good? And I'm like, what are you talking about? We have all these other things that we to be working towards. But I think it's right. Like it is, it's sacrificing the happiness and the joy that the goal is even supposed to bring you. Like if the, if the goal is not bringing happiness, then what the heck are we doing other than feeding egos? And happiness is a much faster drug than ego. Like it's very much, it will, it will be longer term. It will help you so much more. It's more fulfilling. It's more

sustaining. actually really love that. I think it's like make sure that these goals are actually driving happiness and maybe not just ego too.

Dana (08:59.399)

Yeah, I agree. I feel like sometimes we build goals and then we lose our why we're even doing it to begin with. And so I think resetting and looking at that, and it doesn't necessarily mean we don't set goals or we don't focus on the goals. Sometimes it is just like, what is our perspective on the goal and what it brings to us?

Kiera Dent (09:16.101)

Yeah, because a lot of goals, I actually had a epiphany this year. I've got these goals and these numbers and they mean nothing. Like they're just numbers that are arbitrarily put there. Do we still as a team, you want to work towards that? And now the goals are funnier. Like they're, they're fun goals that like the whole team's rallied behind. And I, I had to take a step back to see when I set the goals originally, they were meant to serve a purpose, but is it still serving that purpose anymore? Or do I need to redirect and reconsider?

because sometimes I think we put ourselves in a pressure cooker trying to hit this goal that we said, rather than being like, let's have a redirect, let's have a reassess of where my life is today. And do I still want those same things? And I think it's very important. That's why I love our quarterlies. That's why we do our, the way we're setting up our consulting is checking in quarterly to make sure are we still headed on the path we want to go to, checking in annually, where are we going? And like helping you really build those maps.

to make sure and then giving you the permission to recreate the canvas because you're not the same person you were when you built these originally and your life looks different and you look different and you're like for me, shoot, we went from like this wild out audacious goal to like, let's do something that's actually sustainable and more fun rather than this crazy audacious one. It doesn't mean we don't want to grow, but we don't want to grow just for the sake of growing. We want to grow because it's fun and it's intentional. And I think that's brilliant of being intentional with your goal setting.

and being happy with it rather than just striving. And both are good. So don't feel like we're saying like, schmuck. Like, no, you don't need to. You can do both. That's brilliant. All right. What else do you have? I love these, Dana. I had not thought of this.

Dana (10:43.549)

Yeah.

Dana (10:49.039)

Okay, yeah. I think one thing is for leaders, stop feeling like you can push your team from behind. And what I mean by that is just listening to a podcast and they just kept saying it over and over and it resonated with me so much when thinking of my clients and that is like leaders go first. And making sure that if you want a team that is accountable, you are accountable to them first. If you want...

a team that prioritizes the growth of the practice or prioritizes the practice, you also have to do that. so oftentimes I think we just think we can either drag them behind us or we can shove them through the hole without stepping forward and leading from the

Kiera Dent (11:29.122)

you

Kiera Dent (11:35.414)

Yeah, that's a really good point, Dana, because leaders need to lead. Like you're leading, you are guiding them, you are showing them. And I think like going back to the first point we talked about though, within that is leaders guide, but just because you're accountable, or just because you're proactive, or just because you're driving for this, does not mean you then go and do for each other person that's not doing it. It's hold them accountable to it and have agreements and expectations with each other.

of this is what we're agreeing to. We heard in our leadership meeting, like, let's not have expectations, let's have agreements. Expectations feel like they're placed on us, agreements feel like we agree to it. And so it's like, we have the agreement that we're accountable. These are the items we're accountable to. What's getting in the way, and I do expect you to rise up and own your piece in this as well. But I agree with you, Dana. It's very hard to say, like, do as I say, not as I do. And I've, gosh, it's been like something.

I was not super good with follow through when I started the company. Like it was my greatest like Achilles heel. And I just thought I can sit here and say like, I'm not good at this. Or how am supposed to expect a team to follow through? How am I supposed to expect a team to show up if I don't show up consistently? And so I think it's brilliant. Like you do need to set the example and you do need to hold them there, but not do it for them at the same time, especially those high drivers. I know I love to do. like, it's okay, Dana, I can help with this or it's okay, Tiff. I can help with that. That's not helping. That's hindering.

And then everything's on me. And I think reading the book, the one minute manager meets the monkey. I think that's the one that's like, don't take other people's monkeys because you're a good, a good leader. A good leader actually encourages them to figure out how to handle their issues, how to take care of them without you taking it on. You remove the roadblocks, you set the set the example, set the guiding star, and then make sure that they're rising up to do it as well. Like that's true leadership. It's not doing, it's not pushing, it's not shoving. It's a brilliant, brilliant, brilliant Dana.

And why is it hard? I think it is hard. Because I people are like, no, I want them to show up on time, but the doctor doesn't show up on time. No, I want them to be accountable, but you don't send your clin checks on. And you don't follow through on the things you said you would do. How do you balance that? I think I've got an idea, but what's your idea?

Dana (13:44.615)

think that when you see things not happening the way that you want them, first self-assess. And I know self-assessment can be really hard and often difficult. But if you keep feeling like, I'm running into this roadblock of, yeah, reliability, well, self-assess first and say, am I inspiring and showing reliability in myself? Or what we seem to lack accountability as a team. The team lacks, like, we'll take

self-assess first and say, there any part of this that maybe I am portraying or that I own or that I could do to inspire them to be better at that area?

Kiera Dent (14:23.212)

Yeah, no, I think it's really, really wise to do that self assessment. And then I think also, maybe pick your one, two or three things that you actually want to do. For me, it's high accountability. Like Dana will know if I put it in there, like I will not. How long did I do Friday five until I delegated it to Britt? Like it was it was forever. The team knows I will always follow up on it. They know that I'm going to hit my due dates like I will hit my rocks like that is who I'm going to be because I'm

I don't feel like it is fair to set a standard that I'm not willing to. And if we drop the ball, I will own that, but I'm not going to make excuses for it either. so I think it's like, but those are my main things, like be accountable, get your job done and hit the numbers that you agreed to hitting. And then like do what you say you're going to do and follow through on that. But that's the accountability piece. And I realized that I'm not perfect at that, but it's like...

But we keep showing up and we keep striving to be better. And the reality was I have to set myself a bajillion reminders. I have a reminder for Friday five. I have a reminder for my tasks. I look at my rocks and I'm like, okay, I know I've got a busy week, but I've got to get these things done. I will work late on certain days, but that was due to poor planning, not because I want people working late. Like that was on me. But if I committed and I agreed to that, I need to show up if I want my team to show up as well. And so I think for you leaders as well listening to that.

You're not going to be perfect on everything. And I think it's pick your three things that really matter to you. And for me, it's accountability. It's doing what you're saying you're going to do, which is that, and hit the numbers that you agree to and get the results that we agreed to. Like that's really, like, I want you getting those pieces done. I need to do the same thing. I need to show up on it. But I think like, that's, think how you can not spin so far on like, I want everything perfect. It's not going to be that way. Like let's stop, let's stop setting that bar for ourselves.

And let's focus on the three areas that you really want. And I think that that's actually better leadership. It's smarter leadership, and it's actually growing it with them too.

Dana (16:17.245)

Yeah, yep. And then actually segues right into what I was thinking of as my last thing and that is stop not giving yourselves grace. Because I feel like I hear so much on calls and on some of the events that we do. It's just like, I'm just not a great leader. I'm a terrible leader. And I often want to say because you are so concerned about it, right? That honestly is a sign that you can be a great one.

And so I think that oftentimes leaders hold themselves to just unrealistic expectations or they don't realize that, you know what, like leaders aren't born, they're made or they're grown. And that like, there's just always space for growth. And sometimes you just have to give yourself grace to get there. And to know that, know what, I'm going to seek out the knowledge. I'm going to seek out a coach. I'm going to listen to podcasts. I'm going to read books and I'm going to get there. But I'm also going to give myself grace in the meantime.

Kiera Dent (17:10.776)

As you said that it like actually made me want to just cry because it's like gosh like I had not thought about How hard we work as leaders and how how much love there is I think in leadership and it made me think of I was talking to a doctor last night and She's just like, you know, I'm just not I'm not good and she said I'm so good at self sabotaging and and self sacrificing myself and That also made me kind of stop in the moment of like but why?

I truly do believe that we get what we focus on and I think that there's this space that we think it's humility, but it's actually Deteriorating you as a soul and so it's like if I'm constantly sitting here thinking I'm not a good leader I'm not doing that we actually make that into a reality the strongest force in human nature is to act consistent with who we believe we are not who we actually are and so to this doctor I said well gently I might suggest that we stop with the self-sabotage and start with the self like

lift and I think it's so we're so afraid of ego. We're so afraid of not being this humble leader that we self-sabotage and deteriorate ourselves and like think we're awful and beat ourselves up but it's like you beat yourself up so many times it's very hard to come back up and so I really did love that Dana like give grace have the humility and really focus on what kind of a leader you want to be and even if you're not that maybe even asking yourself like a leader who has grace or a leader who like I think about

have my my hero leaders. And I think about them and I'm like, okay, so what would we'll just use Tony Robbins, you guys all know I'm a huge Tony Robbins fan, like, what would Tony Robbins do in this example, or my really good friend Pierce, he's a really strong CEO. And I'm like, well, what would Pierce do in this moment, and I start to act like that leader and I start to become that leader. But I do love that Dana of becoming like giving the grace. It's a and I love that you said it's a journey. It's not a it's not a destination. It's a journey. We're forever going to be striving and it's like,

If I realize that it's a lifelong journey, I'm not going to be sprinting and destroying myself at the get go. I'm going to be giving the grace, the constant validation. And I think like be your own best cheerleader too. Like I think I'm a dang good freaking leader. I think there's areas to grow. think there's areas to zone and then go pick mentors. Like you said, go choose people that are really good in those areas. I think that's why I love consulting is we're able to give them good examples of leaders and also why we're bringing our doctors together. I'm just going to like throw another plug for that.

Kiera Dent (19:37.218)

Because when you see other people, you stop comparing upon an invisible measuring stick and you start to realize how good you're doing. And then maybe looking to see other people that can help you become 1 % better rather than striving for this unattainable perfection that's just an illusion and honestly the lowest standard that you could ever achieve. Perfection is the lowest standard because you'll never achieve it. And it's truly, in my opinion, dumb to say that I want to be this perfect leader or I need to do these things. It's dumb. It's unrealistic. So why are we even doing that?

I want to be a leader who gives grace. want to be a leader who leads from the front. I want to be a leader who does what I say I'm going to do and holds my team to the same standards. I'm going to be a leader who has goals that inspire me and makes me happy. I'm going to be a leader who allows my team to make decisions because I trust that my team is better than me. I trust that I surround myself with people that are brilliant because what we believe in our teams is actually who they become. It's not who they actually are. It's what we believe that they're capable of. They rise or fall to that standard.

And I think we do as leaders as well.

Well, Dana, that was such a fun, different topic, a different spin to leadership of what leaders should stop doing. And I think that's brilliant. And Dana, I think you do such a beautiful job of growing leaders and teaching offices how to be strong leaders from the doctors to the office managers to the team leads and just really giving them that guidance. And I think that that's probably a passion project that you have, which is why you're so passionate about it for sure. Yeah.

Dana (21:05.191)

Okay.

Kiera Dent (21:06.926)

Well, for all of you listening, stop doing these items. Start becoming that leader that you are destined to be. Your team needs you. Your team needs you to be that leader. And honestly, I think leadership can be lonely, but it doesn't have to be. So get the support, have the friends, have the people in your corner, have Dana in your corner, have Dental A Team in your corner, have someone in your corner that knows how to lead to give you that guidance. And stop beating yourselves up about it too. And if we can help you, here for you. Reach out [e-mail].

And as always, thank you, Dana, for being on the podcast today. was always just a good time with you. Of course, and for all of you listening, thanks for listening, and we'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team Podcast.