Business Ethics

VO BOSS

We've all been there—faced with the decision to work with a business whose practices don't quite sit right. It's a crossroads that can define not just your career, but your character. The BOSSES tackle this head-on, discussing what it really means when corporations say "I'm sorry" and whether change follows their apologies. They also peel back the curtain on the pricing battles both in voiceover work and in the consumer world, questioning why we shouldn't always accept the status quo and, instead, fight for what's fair. This episode isn't just about the voiceover industry—it's a broader look at how we, as professionals and consumers, navigate the moral maze of modern business.

00:01 - Intro (Host) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.

00:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey, hey, everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Boss Superpower Series. Hey, hey, everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Boss Superpower Series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am back in the booth with the lovely, illustrious Lau Lapides.

00:31 - Lau Lapides (Host) Oh, hey Lau hey girl Nice to see you Love being back.

00:36 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I know I feel like it's been an age. I feel like we just haven't seen each other in a while, but yet we did just see each other at VO Atlanta and it was not enough time. The two of us were so insanely busy that I feel like I didn't get enough quality time with you or quality time with anybody oh goodness.

00:53 - Lau Lapides (Host) And that's really funny when you think about it, because when you go to a conference, especially those of us who are going in and we're speaking and we're facilitating, part of the reason why we go is not just to educate but also to meet people and talk and have conversations. And I'm telling you, between the sound, the noise factor, the lights, the running around, the coffee I don't know about you, but I'm taking many naps the coffee, I love it, I love it. The coffee, it's a lot, it's a lot on you at once in a very short amount of time.

01:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right, but we did learn a lot, didn't we?

01:29 We did, we definitely did.

01:31 One of the panels that was brought up and I don't know if this discussion should be entirely about this that most of us are familiar with that in the very beginning of this voiceover industry emerged as a top player in the pay-to-play space who had some questionable business practices and ethics, and I think that that is a really wonderful topic to talk about your clients and business ethics and how you choose to work with your clients or not work with your clients depending on, let's say, their business practices or even your own.

02:07 Have you taken a look at your own business practices? Are they ethical? Where do you stand on that? And I think that here's the elephant in the room. So the CEO of Voicescom was present on a panel at VO Atlanta and the very first thing that Jay Michael asked him to do was to apologize to the community on behalf of his company on the way that he treated the community in terms of maybe double, triple dipping into the funds that voice talent pay to be on that platform, and I thought I'd ask what your thoughts are and what your knowledge is of Voicescom and their past business practices.

02:46 - Lau Lapides (Host) Right. Well, I think you know we're all in the know about that it's a large industry but it's a small industry. If you stay in this industry probably like many others, for your lifetime and you're in it, you really learn a lot and you know a lot and you know a lot of people. It's very in a facetious way. It's very incestuous in that it's a family-driven business where our friends are like our family and we treat our clients like our family and we really get to know one another quite closely. And one of the issues that we're talking about now, especially with Voicescom, is really just taking care of one another and being aware of best business practices that you want to have as your guiding light for your business. Right, and Voicescom really for a long time, has really gone down the path, the dark path, right.

03:33 The dark web or whatever they call that, a dark path, the deep path of nefarious business practices that have caught on very early and now I think most people know about it, unless they're just coming into the business. And you and I feel the same way. We're just not for it. We're not for working hard and working ethically and working with integrity and working for clients, but not doing it under fair practices.

04:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, you know, back in the day, voicescom, when they emerged actually, I believe the very first platform to emerge was well outside of freelancer and those types of platforms was Voice123. And I remember I was an early adopter of Voice123. And then Voicescom came along not too long after that and the owner of that company, the Cicerellis, david and Stephanie, I believe it's- yeah.

04:22 C Cicerelli, were well-known in the community and used to show up to VO Atlanta and the conferences, and they really made a stake in the pay-to-play and became a popular pay-to-play in the industry. And along the way, somewhere I can't even say exactly when it happened, but along the way there became like a fee that was known as the pay-to-plays developed. You would pay a fee to belong to it and so that would give you the opportunities to audition. And then there was this thing that they introduced called escrow, and escrow was if you wanted to make sure that you got paid, then Voicescom would hold that payment for you and then when the job was completed, they would then release that payment, and so as a fee for that holding right the escrow, they would receive a fee.

05:05 And so I remember at that time people were kind of like I think after a year or so of that, people started to question that Isn't that double dipping? It's like you're charging the talent twice, they've already paid to belong to the platform and now you're charging an escrow fee on top of that in order to hold the money. But it was a guarantee that you would get paid. So consider them like a bank right. So first of all, let me ask you your opinion of that. Do you think that that is a fair and ethical practice for a business? Oh, okay. And do you think that is considered double?

05:36 - Lau Lapides (Host) dipping. I do, I do, I absolutely do. You know it's funny. This was me in my early naive mind. I always thought of those platforms as online agencies in a certain way, because what they're doing is they're matchmaking. They're presenting clients to you that you're not going to get on your own, most likely You're not going to meet on your own, and they're presenting it in a way where they do not want you to go private with those clients. In other words, they don't want you to acquire those clients offline. They want you to stay within the platform and use them as the agents. So I'll call them an agency. They don't call themselves an agency, but that's the same premise, right? But a legitimate agency does not charge you anything to be with them. They're going to take their commission off your booking. So it's a totally different business model and therefore they're not an agency.

06:28 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So interesting. So I'm going to play devil's advocate here and I'm going to say not coming from the agency world, right, but coming from the business world, right, the escrow was an option. At that point, you did not have to decide to put money in escrow. But if you decided to put your faith in them and use the escrow model, they would then take a fee on top of that. So let's say it wasn't an agency, let's say it was a bank fee, right? Would you agree?

06:53 Then, if you thought of it that way and you weren't thinking of them as an agency, in order for you to belong to the platform, they provided you, maybe not matchmaking, but they provided opportunities for you. I mean, they were matchmaking through the algorithm, so to speak, but as a business, as strictly as a business, not thinking of it as an agency. As a business, they were providing you with opportunities. So you paid for that on a yearly basis or whatever, a monthly basis. And then if you wanted them to guarantee the money and hold on to the money because if the client didn't pay them, well, they still had to pay you then you would pay a fee no-transcript.

08:01 - Lau Lapides (Host) I don't want that service. I'm willing to take the incurred risk.

08:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And they allowed that Right. They allowed that in the beginning. I do remember that.

08:07 - Lau Lapides (Host) That is okay. I'll go down that road with them because I'm paying for a service, I'm paying for a platform service and those are valued leads. I get that, it's legitimate, it's valued leads, I'm getting bookings, perfect. But still the control is in my hands when they took that away, when they take that option away, then the nature of it changes in the mind of the consumer. So to me it's not an easy yes or no. It's more like how much control do I have when I'm working with that partner? Sure, sure. What do you think, annie?

08:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, I think, because I remember seeing it evolve right and it evolved slowly over time. So I think in a lot of instances they thought that the evolution of those policies and practices would not be noticed by the community. Now, I believe once they decided to not allow people to take customers off the platform, right, that became more of how were they going to enforce it right?

09:01 So, in order to, enforce it, escrow became like non-negotiable. It was a thing that they did, and so they took control of that. Now, a few years down the road, right then, it turned out to be managed projects. Now, on top of that, right as a service, they would manage the entire project, in case it was a larger project and you needed to cast, let's say, multiple roles or it ended up being a long-term project.

09:27 They would manage the project and then there was a fee on top of that. It was no straightforward fee. At this point it was okay. It was a separate negotiation between Voicescom and the client for a particular amount of money which they did not then disclose to the member or the voice talent that got the job right. Then they became the company that managed the job and paid the voice talent and paid their own employees to manage that job, which there is a certain overhead in managing a job like that. I've been a project manager yeah, they're casting.

10:01 - Lau Lapides (Host) They're casting, they're doing project management. They're taking care of the money. They're doing reach out for the leads. Exactly, they're getting the leads in right.

10:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So there's an additional fee. So now to some people in the industry not even thinking about that, it's triple dipping and your thoughts on that.

10:15 - Lau Lapides (Host) I agree.

10:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, yes, at that point, because there's no control left for the voice. Talent, right, yes, correct, I'm on that side At this point. When you don't offer the talent an option to opt out of escrow, now, theoretically you don't have to accept a managed job, right, you do?

10:31 - Lau Lapides (Host) not have to accept a managed job.

10:32 - Intro (Host) So, see how they played the edge.

10:35 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) They played the edge of, I would say, good business ethics and good business practices, but not unlike a lot of big companies out there who maybe you're not so privy. It's just because they're managing income that you are generating. Think about it right they took your choices away. That's what they did. Well, they really didn't take your choice away on a managed job. They did not.

11:00 - Lau Lapides (Host) Okay, but let me ask you this question I don't know how many tiers they have. I have a client that recently showed me something like six or seven tiers or eight tiers of options of different levels. Well, why aren't you doing that? On the other end, just give us the option of the tiers of involvement that we want to have you as a partner. So if I'm early, I don't know what I'm doing. I need all the help in the world. I might go for a higher tier because I'm going to want you to manage everything. I'm going to want you to bank the money. I'm going to want you to take care of me and hold my hand. But if I'm into it five or ten years, I don't need that because I know the practice, I understand how to take care of myself and take the calculated risk. But the option could easily be there. They're offering all these tiers for the membership itself.

11:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So I think, when it comes down to it again, I'm playing devil's advocate, right? I don't want people to say, oh my God, shelovesvoicescom advocate, right? I don't want people to say, oh my God, she loves Voicescom. But honestly, from a business standpoint, right, I do believe if you've not given the talent an opportunity to opt out of things, then you are triple dipping. However, they kept it right on the edge there where at one point and I'm not exactly sure, forgive me for not knowing this I'm not exactly sure about the escrow anymore. I don't know if that's an option or not anymore, if it's just it grow anymore.

12:15 - Lau Lapides (Host) I don't know if that's an option or not anymore, if it's just it's now like standard that they will pay you. I don't know if that was that ever an option, oh it was.

12:19 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It absolutely was an option.

12:20 - Lau Lapides (Host) That was a long time ago. It was a long time ago, that was early.

12:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Because I remember joining Voice123 back in 2004,. Maybe even earlier than that, I can't remember In the early 2000s, but it was an option. You did not have to choose escrow, and so I believe that if that's not an option anymore, they're definitely double dipping. And I think with the managed yeah, I mean absolutely with the managed. So there are people who say they should give up the yearly fee right for providing opportunities, or the membership fee, or they should give up the escrow or they should give up the managed fee.

12:56 - Intro (Host) Right Any one of those, and so.

12:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I do not know exactly what the new CEO at Voicescom said in the panel, because I had to go teach my own ex-session at the time, but he did indeed apologize on behalf of the company. So here's my question, laha what do you feel about an apology made? And of course, he was not CEO of the company back then? Here's my question, laha what do you feel about an apology made? And, of course, he was not CEO of the company back then? He had no prior knowledge of what was happening. He doesn't even come from a voiceover background. What is your thought about the apology?

13:24 - Lau Lapides (Host) Well, I treat it the same as any business and certainly as politics as well. I think he's a front man, I think he's probably a diplomat in certain ways, as a leader and someone who knows it is the right and ethical thing to do and what is expected of a community that he does not want to lose the partnership with. So is it honest? I don't know. Is it meant to be followed through? Who knows? And is there going to be a policy change? We will only know once we see it. It could be completely empty. It could be completely to satisfy the emotional feelings of talent which, quite frankly, at the end of the day doesn't mean very much if there's no policy change. So I say, wait and see. Does anything change after that? I think it was a good first move on his part.

14:13 It was a smart chess move. It was no skin off his nose. He probably doesn't even know what voiceover does for the most part.

14:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And everybody's like, well, he took a beating. And I'm like, well, I mean gosh. Remember Rolf a few years back from Voice 123. Every time he came on stage he took a beating. And I remember seeing Rolf this year and saying well, rolf, at least you won't get the brunt of it this year. And he laughed.

14:36 - Lau Lapides (Host) Exactly, and you know what, annie, I have to say. He said that's what a CEO does. Let me tell you, these Wall Street-type cats could care less. In fact, they plan those for their Saturday morning. They have a ball at Target practice. No one knows, no one understands, understands like what a boardroom is like unless they lived in a boardroom or lived in corporate America or lived in executive C fights. Like no one gets that. I remember my husband, who's now a CFO controller type. He said boy, when I was coming up the reins and I was already a controller at that I was dealing with ownership of a company and they would literally get up and throw a vase of flowers at me and it would hit the wall and crash. Literally, they would throw things at each other.

15:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So I really think— it's dog-eat-dog kind of. You know what I mean. Yeah, I think that.

15:24 - Lau Lapides (Host) that's like we want to feel as talented, satisfied that we got some comeuppance in the deal.

15:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, I'm sorry oh my God, I just rolled my eyes.

15:35 I mean, guys, I love the voiceover community Do not get me wrong but sometimes the drama, okay, I'm just saying we've got to remember guys, we are dealing with businesses, when we deal with these platforms and when we deal with our clients, they are businesses and in reality, in our own little bubble, we may think you know what I mean that, oh my God, yes, and I want. We may think you know what I mean that, oh my god, yes, and I want to say, you know, I'd love for everybody to be human and say, yes, they need to be good people and good humans and ethical. But gosh, it's not that way in a lot of places it's not that way, you have to open your eyes and be savvy and be smart.

16:08 yes, when you are dealing with businesses, that now for me and I would say a lot you too, I mean, do I want to deal with a business that I feel has questionable ethics and practices? No, I don't. I am fortunate that in my business I'm not dependent on that money, so I can choose who I work with, and I think that's the really wonderful thing about us in our industry that you can choose who you work with. Right and for me, that's always been where I felt like I won the corporate game If I was working for a particular company. And I work with a lot of students who they work in the corporate world and at some point they all want to get out of it because they don't feel appreciated or loved or they do a lot and they're working for someone else, and now that we have the option to work for ourselves first of all, I think we're the hardest CEOs, but also we have choices as to who our clients are.

17:03 So we can absolutely choose not to work with somebody who we feel that their business practices are questionable. That gives you more time to look for people who are right and get that business to somebody else.

17:14 - Lau Lapides (Host) Exactly. And to piggyback right onto that, I was talking to a client this week who is also in my agency as well and who said, listen, I have a friend and he's on Fiverr and he came to me and we're actually accountability buddies and I told him everything I thought about this and he said but Lala, I don't know, Did I do the right thing? What do you think about that? What do you think about that? What do you think about what?

17:34 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) he's doing To be a friend. Is somebody on Fiverr? Well, no what he's saying is.

17:38 - Lau Lapides (Host) He came to this person and he said what do you think of me being on Fiverr? I know that it has some dark imagery in the business and people are dissuaded away. What do you think? So I said and I had to be a diplomat as well, because I'm not here to wreck businesses and give businesses a bad reputation but here's what I said and I honestly believe this. I said listen, whether your friend goes on Fiverr or not, or a million other platforms or not, you're the accountability buddy, which is terrific. Keep them checks and balance and remember this. That exactly what you're saying, annie.

18:16 Your business is your business, it's yours, it belongs to you. It's private to some degree. It puts food on your table, it makes you happy and sleep at night. You're an artist, you're a business person, but you're an artist and I don't want to sit in judgment and jury of other artists. I don't want to censor their moves. I say you do what works for your business.

18:38 Now, if you want to go into areas that are illegal, criminal, whatever, I'm not going to go there. That's just not where I'm going to go. It's not what I do and what I'm about or what my personhood or brand is about. But I still. I don't want to judge anyone, I don't want to be in judgment of anyone, because I feel like they're the ones, at the end of the day, who have to get up in the morning and go through a whole day supporting their business, and I don't know what their lives are like. Right, they might be poor, they might have no money in the bank. They might say law, I can't even afford a simple ad in like you know whatever.

19:15 And I said, well, listen, you do what works for you and that's going to bring you to the next thing. I mean, that's just the way I roll. You know what I mean? It's the same discussion we've had about FICOR, about financial core. We get a lot of people. I just got an email this morning from someone who is in my class who said I went SAG and law. I need your help now. I need your help. I want to go FICOR. I'm a little conflicted. I don't know what to do, how to do it. I know the union doesn't want to talk to me about it, of course, right. And I say listen, you know there's pros and cons to every choice you make, but as a coach because I'm still a coach. I'm going to talk to you and educate you about what your choices are Sure absolutely.

19:56 And then you go and make your choices and I'll support you in the choices you make. It doesn't mean I agree with them.

20:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It means I support you Sure, absolutely, absolutely.

20:04 - Lau Lapides (Host) Right, and isn't that at the end of the day?

20:06 Annie where we want to go is like we're not always going to agree with. This has been a big ethical. For a week I had another from my roster. He emailed me about an AI company that reached out to him and wanted to work with him. He said number one is this legitimate? Is it a scam? And number two I don't like it. I don't like their rates, I don't like the usage. I don't like it. I don't like their rates, I don't like the usage. And I said, well, go with your gut. Yeah, absolutely Go with what you feel, Otherwise you won't be happy. Absolutely, Absolutely.

20:35 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right and I'm going to say that I do believe that when a company is not acting in an ethical manner, I do believe it's important that people speak up and speak their mind about it, because that is the only way that change will become enforced, or change can happen, if there are enough voices that are raised up about it. So I do believe organizations like NAVA, even the Facebook groups and again, like I said, I say there's so much drama, but I mean we are creatives, I mean there is drama in our world, but I also want bosses out there to, yes, embrace your creative and embrace your drama, but also embrace the business aspect of things and try to understand that it's not an affront against you personally.

21:20 I mean Voicescom did they insult you personally by charging a fee?

21:26 I mean it can infuriate you absolutely, but it wasn't a personal attack.

21:30 However, it is up to you to educate yourself on the practices of any given business and then decide whether that is something you want to support or not.

21:38 And if you feel that you're being taken advantage of, absolutely, I say raise your voice. But I don't say raise your voice and stomp off like a spoiled little child. That's not getting your way, but raise your voice in an educated and smart way that can help to promote change, I would say, or promote awareness in the industry, which is what VL Boss I set out to do was to provide a resource for the community so that we could talk about things like this and it could be open and we could discuss and I will be the first to say there's many of you who know the VL Boss podcast from the very beginning and there was a question, there was a question of certain people that I had on my podcast whether they were ethical. Now, I was not educated at the time and that could be something that people may or may not believe is true. However, at the time, I was not educated about business practices no-transcript.

22:57 - Lau Lapides (Host) You're buying items, retail items from big box stores. Right? Let's say you're going to Target, walmart or a Macy's or Nordstrom's, whatever, and you walk in. I'm going to guarantee you you are paying 50% to 100% over retail in terms of the profit margins that they are charging you, but somehow, somehow, many of us go.

23:19 Well, you know, you know. And are you going to go to the manager and you're going to complain about that? The manager will say hey, with all due respect, ma'am, I don't make decisions. You got to go up. Are you going to spend all day? I'm asking a real question to the audience Are you going to spend all day, every day, fighting that good fight, even though you're right, you're right fighting that good fight to get to corporate, to get to the CEO, to make sure the prices come down, to make sure they're affordable? Probably not.

23:49 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love that you brought that up. Law, probably. But one more thing.

23:53 - Lau Lapides (Host) I want to say and I'm not talking about boycotting, that's up to you. I'm not suggesting that in any way. I'm just saying we make ethical decisions every day of our lives, all day long. Where am I going to go to the gas station? Am I going to pay that for gasoline? Am I going to go to the gas station? Am I going to pay that for gasoline? Am I going to whatever? So everything you could be fighting, I think there is a level of toleration we have to find in our lives to stay happy and healthy, knowing we're being taken for a ride.

24:23 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, absolutely. I love that you made that comparison. That is so, so important, because I think we're in such a bubble and we think that everything's in front to us personally.

24:32 And it's not. It is business business in this country, I mean. So we ourselves are free to set our prices, right, we are free to set our prices. And so what if the tables were turned and somebody said, well, that's not ethical, I mean, in a very weird sense, right? If you think about AI and you think about synthetic voices and people's value of, okay, what is a voice worth?

24:58 Now, my human voice and my acting and my personal brand is worth a lot. That's where I will make that bold statement to say this is what I charge, this is what I'm worth, will make that bold statement to say this is what I charge, this is what I'm worth. However, there will be people who need a voice that may not see the value right for their project, for a human voice. They don't have a need for it, right, and they make that choice not to work with us. And so, again, we are in the free societies where we can make our price, in the free societies where we can make our price, and the rebellion against us, right, or the speaking up against us is hey, we don't have that budget or we don't feel the value is there to pay that amount of money for a voice. I mean, I hate to sound so cold, but that's just the reality of business. That's the reality of it.

25:48 - Lau Lapides (Host) When you deal with people and you deal with budgets, you're going to run up against the same thing. I had a client of mine in my roster that said law, I need your thought because I have a long, long, long time client and she's just not going to pay me what I'm asking. She's not going to pay me what I'm worth. She's not going to. What should I do? Should I walk away from it at this point, or should I stay with it, or whatever? We talked that through. But the point is, that's your world, that's our world, that's business.

26:14 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's what we do every day.

26:15 - Lau Lapides (Host) That's not going to go away. I mean, whether you call that unethical or not, I'm not sure, but thousands of years ago I'm sure, we were being overpriced for fish and beef and meat on the open market. You had to haggle, you had to negotiate, you had to figure out what you're willing to pay for that item, and there's also supply and demand. So when you have a tremendous supply, tremendous supply, you don't always have the demand to meet that, and so therein lies the ethics, exactly exactly.

26:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And supply and demand has a lot to do with paying me what I'm worth. I mean honestly like if there is more demand for our voices.

26:55 - Lau Lapides (Host) We can afford to pay Go higher, go higher.

26:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, if there is less demand, then you know what We've got to kind of compete in the marketplace.

27:04 - Lau Lapides (Host) Right, and let me qualify it by saying we're in no way suggesting for the listeners that you need to sell out or you need to do things you don't want to do or you're not comfortable doing. We're saying you live in a world, you live in a world and no one said that world is going to be fair.

27:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh yeah.

27:20 - Lau Lapides (Host) So fair practices, best practices, are ones that you set and your clients set, and you have what they call a meeting of the minds. And if you don't and you want to fight for it and it's worth fighting for, then fight for it. But just know you got to pick your battles wisely.

27:40 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely, because you could be fighting all day long, every day, yeah, and it can be exhausting. And in the meantime, if you're spending all of your time fighting those battles, then you're not making money in your business, right? So and again. I always bring it back to this right. I find value in this. For me, my Chanel lipstick is worth the money that I pay, right, and I always like to bring it back to my Chanel lipstick.

28:00 But in reality now I found that the quality of the Chanel lipstick has gone a little bit downhill, and so now I'm on the hunt for something new, right, that can give me the quality that I am willing to pay the price for. So, bosses, keep in mind, you will have clients out there that will go out there and hunt for that voice, right, that is the quality that they desire for their project. So you can be that voice and you can, at that point, charge, right. You can charge, as we were mentioning before. It is your option, it is your option and so, ethically, I think it is up to you guys out there to educate yourself right on business practices and then take a deep look at yourself, take a deep look at what it's costing you in your business Not necessarily, like, as Law was saying before, fighting every single day and taking up a lot of your time and energy in fighting that so that you have no time to have a business.

28:57 - Lau Lapides (Host) Yes, you want to choose your battles wisely and I always like to say I don't mind losing some battles and you will throughout your life but I want to win the war.

29:06 - Intro (Host) And what that means is I want to win my business.

29:09 - Lau Lapides (Host) I want to win overall my business practice and my goals. But that doesn't mean every day is going to be fair and every day is going to come out the way I want it to come out. And you know it's like I love Dunkin' Donuts and when I go through, if I get a donut, that donut is two or three bucks, is half the size now, and you'll say but Law, with all due respect, you shouldn't be eating donuts. Well, that's beside the point. The point is I have a choice. I'm not talking about health, I'm just talking for fun. Now I don't have to buy that donut.

29:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You don't have to pay the money for that donut, but am I going to?

29:41 - Lau Lapides (Host) go fight the CEO over the size of it and the cost of it? Probably not, because it's not a battle that I really want to take up Wise words Law.

29:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Wow, what a great discussion. I really really enjoyed it so good.

29:52 - Intro (Host) Yeah, bosses.

29:53 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So remember, educate yourself and look deep within and pick your battles. So, all right, I'd like to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can connect and network like bosses, like Law and myself. Find out more at IPDdtlcom. You guys have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye, see you next week, bye.

30:15 - Intro (Host) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss dot com and receive exclusive content, industry-rev, revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution, with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via IPDTL.

30:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey bosses, we are so excited to announce our audition demolition, our third audition demolition coming up September 20th. That is our live event F***.

31:00 - Lau Lapides (Host) Oh no, f***, oh no, you got to submit this for bloopers.

31:06 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah For OVC, yeah right, all right, stop Record.